KC Review - Exclusively Setters2024-03-28T19:01:43Zhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/forum/topics/865021:Topic:101949?commentId=865021%3AComment%3A102010&feed=yes&xn_auth=noNot quite sure what you are s…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-11-04:865021:Comment:1109982008-11-04T16:48:46.159ZDee Rancehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/DeeRance
Not quite sure what you are saying Henk but if I understand you.....more fool them.........
Not quite sure what you are saying Henk but if I understand you.....more fool them......... Back to setterscenes: culling…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-11-04:865021:Comment:1109882008-11-04T16:12:36.823ZHenk ten Kloosterhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Setterset
Back to setterscenes: culling was one of the "techniques" to produce the all red Irish setter, so seek and destroy white on red. Still happening, under more caused by misinterpretation of the standard.<br />
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Culling reds was one of the "techniques" to produce the red and white Irish setter. More sources report that breeders of red and white Irish setters in the UK even cull red and white IS when they have "the type of an Irish red setter".
Back to setterscenes: culling was one of the "techniques" to produce the all red Irish setter, so seek and destroy white on red. Still happening, under more caused by misinterpretation of the standard.<br />
<br />
Culling reds was one of the "techniques" to produce the red and white Irish setter. More sources report that breeders of red and white Irish setters in the UK even cull red and white IS when they have "the type of an Irish red setter". Totally forgot the ridgeback,…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-11-04:865021:Comment:1109722008-11-04T14:32:09.064Zursula wilbyhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/mossby188
Totally forgot the ridgeback, Susan!<br />
And I have seen the program too...even if split up in to small sections on the net. Must be loosing it faster that I thought!!!!! :-)<br />
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I was more thinking about wrongly coloured pugs, boxers, dalmations etc.
Totally forgot the ridgeback, Susan!<br />
And I have seen the program too...even if split up in to small sections on the net. Must be loosing it faster that I thought!!!!! :-)<br />
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I was more thinking about wrongly coloured pugs, boxers, dalmations etc. I misunderstood the text as w…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-11-04:865021:Comment:1109222008-11-04T11:57:14.501ZDee Rancehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/DeeRance
I misunderstood the text as well if Margaret has interpreted it all correctly, nobody is saying that ALL puppies whatever condition should be kept. No one in the whole discussion, or in their right mind, has said that, we are all for the good health of our respective breeds, and keeping, cleft pallets, deformed, misshaped and weekly puppies etc just isn't good breeding, and in our days you can put a clause on the pedigree that says 'not to be breed from' if you really think that the puppy is…
I misunderstood the text as well if Margaret has interpreted it all correctly, nobody is saying that ALL puppies whatever condition should be kept. No one in the whole discussion, or in their right mind, has said that, we are all for the good health of our respective breeds, and keeping, cleft pallets, deformed, misshaped and weekly puppies etc just isn't good breeding, and in our days you can put a clause on the pedigree that says 'not to be breed from' if you really think that the puppy is not a good specimen of its breed. But is perfectly healthy. Someone will love it.<br />
No Ursula I don't think that it is YOU that misunderstood.<br />
We all know someone who has gone that extra mile to keep a puppy going when it really should have been culled, and it nearly always ends in tears, it a good breeder that can say 'let it go' I would only do this when there is a problem with the puppy and I have done it in the past. Didn't like it, but it was for the good of the animal, but culling for the sake of culling, not for me.......but everyone to the own. IMHO you are quite right, Urs…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-11-04:865021:Comment:1109092008-11-04T11:38:29.536ZSusan Stonehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/SwissSusan
IMHO you are quite right, Ursula.<br />
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The background to this rule of <b>forbidding compulsory culling of healthy pups</b> is that the 'famous film' Pedigree Dogs exposed brought to light that the Rhodesian Ridgeback Club of Great Britain had laid out rules that all pups born without a ridge must be culled... despite being perfectly healthy and - whats more - not prone to be affected by a specific skin disease that affects ridged ridgebacks more often than those without... but I digress from the…
IMHO you are quite right, Ursula.<br />
<br />
The background to this rule of <b>forbidding compulsory culling of healthy pups</b> is that the 'famous film' Pedigree Dogs exposed brought to light that the Rhodesian Ridgeback Club of Great Britain had laid out rules that all pups born without a ridge must be culled... despite being perfectly healthy and - whats more - not prone to be affected by a specific skin disease that affects ridged ridgebacks more often than those without... but I digress from the setter theme here... "This includes a clause that…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-11-04:865021:Comment:1108992008-11-04T11:27:39.175Zursula wilbyhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/mossby188
<b>"This includes a clause that explicitly forbids the <i>compulsory</i> culling of healthy puppies."</b><br />
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To me the sentance does not read the way that Margaret sees it. I understand the meaning to be: No compulsory culling dictated by (for instance) breedclubs. I dont know about the practice in England, but there are quite a few breedclubs everywhere that will tell you to cull puppies with unacceptable colours.<br />
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To me this is a different question to culling out weak puppies or reducing the…
<b>"This includes a clause that explicitly forbids the <i>compulsory</i> culling of healthy puppies."</b><br />
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To me the sentance does not read the way that Margaret sees it. I understand the meaning to be: No compulsory culling dictated by (for instance) breedclubs. I dont know about the practice in England, but there are quite a few breedclubs everywhere that will tell you to cull puppies with unacceptable colours.<br />
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To me this is a different question to culling out weak puppies or reducing the size of the litter...and yes Margaret, keeping weak puppies at "any-cost" would certainly not improve a breed.<br />
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But perhaps it is <b>me</b> missunderstanding the text? :-) Susan Morriss wrote
"This in…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-11-04:865021:Comment:1108852008-11-04T11:13:31.440ZMargaret Sierakowskihttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/MargaretSierakowski
Susan Morriss wrote<br />
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"This includes a clause that explicitly forbids the compulsory culling of healthy puppies.<br />
How on earth will the KC be able to enforce this rule, Big Brother sitting in the corner of the whelping room?<br />
Moves to improve the health etc., by the KC, of any breed has to be applauded."<br />
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But will still allow the culling of unhealthy puppies? A blanket ban on culling isnt good for the health of dogs, it enforces the survival of very small, weak , sick and defective puppies. What…
Susan Morriss wrote<br />
<br />
"This includes a clause that explicitly forbids the compulsory culling of healthy puppies.<br />
How on earth will the KC be able to enforce this rule, Big Brother sitting in the corner of the whelping room?<br />
Moves to improve the health etc., by the KC, of any breed has to be applauded."<br />
<br />
But will still allow the culling of unhealthy puppies? A blanket ban on culling isnt good for the health of dogs, it enforces the survival of very small, weak , sick and defective puppies. What does a breeder do with them? I dont want to sell poor quality puppies, even to pet homes, where owners may face big vet's bills while raising them. I would rather cull. Even worse if these unhealthy puppies are bred from and perpetuate lines of unhealthy dogs.<br />
And a few decades back, it was considered to be bad for the health of bitches to have to raise large litters. Good breeders used to pick the best 6 - 8 puppies, and cull the rest. That contributed to ensuring that only healthy dogs were bred from. And that bitches remained fit and healthy for raising more litters I won't go any further into t…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-11-02:865021:Comment:1101462008-11-02T15:54:57.770ZDee Rancehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/DeeRance
I won't go any further into the culling thing.......... But I agree with the number and enforcement part, how can anyone or any official body do these things, Its like the problem of the number of litters that one bitch can have in a period of time, and using a very young dog, or bitch........ ''oh dear they got together and I didn't realise'' and the kennel club can't prove otherwise, and that is one way to get around the rules, a lot of people think that 'rules are made to be broken'<br />
But…
I won't go any further into the culling thing.......... But I agree with the number and enforcement part, how can anyone or any official body do these things, Its like the problem of the number of litters that one bitch can have in a period of time, and using a very young dog, or bitch........ ''oh dear they got together and I didn't realise'' and the kennel club can't prove otherwise, and that is one way to get around the rules, a lot of people think that 'rules are made to be broken'<br />
But something needs to be done, there are so many problems that are manifesting themselves now, we just can't keep treating our pets like this they are the ones that suffer the most, but when you have an animal that lives in your house, and sell its off-spring then you have a responsibility to the owners of those animals, and yourself to do the rite thing. As for having to have certain…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-10-25:865021:Comment:1073592008-10-25T15:34:57.194Zursula wilbyhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/mossby188
As for having to have certain requirements before you are able to register your litter, yes that is the same as in Sweden. And I think it is great!<br />
<br />
But then as Camilla points out, there are ways around the system.<br />
Not when it comes to the dog and bitch used, but perhaps their littermates or previous offspring. And close relatives of the parents are almost as important as the parents themselves, when it comes to a litter.<br />
Difficult as to how far you can push all these rules and how many you can…
As for having to have certain requirements before you are able to register your litter, yes that is the same as in Sweden. And I think it is great!<br />
<br />
But then as Camilla points out, there are ways around the system.<br />
Not when it comes to the dog and bitch used, but perhaps their littermates or previous offspring. And close relatives of the parents are almost as important as the parents themselves, when it comes to a litter.<br />
Difficult as to how far you can push all these rules and how many you can have (and enforce).<br />
<br />
As to culling puppies if there are too many or they do not comfirm to the breedstandard, I still firmly believe that this is up to the breeder and their own moral jugement. I think the problem addressed…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2008-10-25:865021:Comment:1073512008-10-25T14:36:12.850ZSusan Stonehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/SwissSusan
I think the problem addressed here is that some breed clubs had a clause in their code of ethics (?!) saying those puppies not fitting the standard (coat, colour, etc.) <b>had to be</b> culled, even if perfectly healthy. So what is forbidden is <b>compulsory</b> culling. I don't know where they stand when it concerns culling a large litter to help the others survive.<br />
<br />
In Switzerland it is forbidden to cull healthy pups. If a litter is larger than 8 you are required to either bottle feed or find…
I think the problem addressed here is that some breed clubs had a clause in their code of ethics (?!) saying those puppies not fitting the standard (coat, colour, etc.) <b>had to be</b> culled, even if perfectly healthy. So what is forbidden is <b>compulsory</b> culling. I don't know where they stand when it concerns culling a large litter to help the others survive.<br />
<br />
In Switzerland it is forbidden to cull healthy pups. If a litter is larger than 8 you are required to either bottle feed or find a surrogate mother for the surplus pups.<br />
<br />
Personally I think stricter regulations are a good thing. Those breeders who do not conform with health checks should not be able to register their puppies with the KC. Non registered dogs would not be eligible for breeding.<br />
The general public should be informed that the KC registration forms a kind of guarantee that the minimum requirements have been fulfilled (ie health checks, COI regulations etc, breeder education etc).<br />
This works reasonably well in our country.