Over trimming or shaving of the Show Irish Red Setter?

[Carmel Murphy]

I would like to know the opinion of all show people on the over shaving(trimming) of the setter? I was very surprised to see that trimming is actually mentioned in the AKC breed standard (coat section)"Trimming is done to preserve the natural appearance of the dog" How over trimming or shaving can preserve a natural look is quite puzzling to me!!!! I make my dogs as neat as possible for shows with a scissors or hand plucking but never put a blade near them!! I think that over grooming is quite the opposite of the natural appearance!! I believe over trimming/grooming makes setters look a bit like cardboard cut outs,not real dogs!!!!!!!!

[Dee Rance]

Carmel would this dog be one of the ''popular sire's of the moment''??? yes it is a sign of a profuse coat, but I think that it detracts from the dog, The natural look is what I look for, don't like the Sculptured look...and we have to go with what we like when choosing a stud dog, or the way we trim our dogs, that's what makes either of these decisions these days so difficult.
And Ursula can we have a before and after picture of the 'new look'????

[Carmel Murphy]

Yes he is a popular sire and I know one of his sons too!!! But would not suit my girls(I would end up with curly coated retrievers!!!!);o)))

[Dee Rance]

Wrong colour, well perhaps it would put the Golden back in the name.....

[ursula wilby]

What, the stocking over my head?
I thought that was simplyfing matters!
I want more of a fluffy -good-hair-day-look...I thought you had been a hairdresser? :-)

[Dee Rance]

yeh but that was in the 60's when I was a 'Yung Gal', perhaps one of those old fashioned swimming hats, do you remember them the rubber ones???? lovely.....;-))
If I can't give myself a good-hair-day how do you expect me to do that for anyone else, couldn't do it when I was a hairdresser, certainly can't do it now....why do you think I became a Bus Driver.....Perhaps the oil first then the wash and dry??? but it must be clipped off first...That will be £45 thank you!!!!! ;-))
Its good you know what my sense of humour is like ~EH~

[ursula wilby]

WHAT!!!!!!!!
£45?
And I look no different...ok then...its the clipping off thats needed!

[Dee Rance]

Yes you pay for expertise, I know that I am a bit rusty.....like 48years rusty and when I started in hairdressing a trim etc was 5s 6p my how things have changed, going to the dentist tomorrow, she is about 15 what is it they say when the professionals look like children......me getting old......YES!!!! unfortunately......

[Carmel Stringfellow]

Hi Dee,
as a owner/exhibitor with English stock in a very American environment, I would love a few tips on how to get the coats flat. My lovely boy has quite a wavy coat and it doesn't help that I live in a very humid climate.
Carmel Stringfellow
Australia

[Alison and Kevin Cooper (HUGARED)]

The styling academy DVD for Irish Setters by Dee Milligan Bott actually shows clipping of the neck. Dee states that she doesn't see any harm in this as long as it is at least 3 weeks before the show. I have in my short time of showing seen some wicked clipping of necks and ears in the ring. Even on puppies!!! One of the show critiques I was at actually highlighted this issue and asked echibitors to address the severe clipping of necks and ears. I personally would not do it on my setters as I think you have to be excellent at clipping to make this look natural even after 3 weeks. Having won an award at a grooming competition fr my clipping of a cocker spanial into show trim I still wouldn't consider it. If I got to this stage I would consider myself having lost the focus of family pet first. There is however a difference between clipping and tidying outlines with blending scissors. Skill and experience still pays off as many people will know you can end up with the hair growing back much lighter than the rest of the coat. Far better to be doing regular top up of trims than big trimming at long intervals just before shows.

[Dee Rance]

Which Dee are you talking about, is it Dee Milligan Bott or me, if it is me because I do use the clipper on the neck, and only 3 weeks before a show. I hope that I have some experience a) with Clippers and b) with dogs......I started my working life as a Hairdresser at the tender age of 15 when I left school, so that is the Clipper thing our of the way, I hope.....and I started in Dogs in 1971 I know that you are always learning in this 'game' so I hope that I have evolved with the times, and gained some experience.....I use clippers because I have arthritis and can't use thinning scissors for too long, so do most of the work with the clippers and then 'finish off' with the thinning scissors. Are you coming to Crufts?? if so please come and see the finished product, I am quite proud of what I do with Jas and Saffy all dogs are different to prepare, and you have to take that into account, what I don't do is shave close to the skin. I always use a guard on the clippers, never shave the ears off, and always go with the coat, this all comes with experience, I think that I have said it before, it takes a very long time to get the dog looking natural, and natural is what I like, not shaved and sculptured, but that is just me, I think we know that others do like the sculptured look. I am sure that it is the 'other' Dee that you are talking about, but I think that she would probably say something the same, probably put it a bit better though....oh and a ps. PLEASE don't clip puppies, just tidy them up....the hair WILL come through light if you start shaving babies, its a no-no.

[Susan Morriss]

Dee Rance,
Your question:
Which Dee are you talking about, is it Dee Milligan Bott or me

Opening line from Alison & Kevin Cooper as follows:
The styling academy DVD for Irish Setters by Dee Milligan Bott actually shows clipping of the neck. Dee states that she doesn't see any harm in this as long as it is at least 3 weeks before the show.
Hope this helps Dee.

[Dee Rance]

I thought that it was the other Dee....but I think if you look back on what I had written, not sure if it was this forum or another one, that I have said the same, but confused.....yes it is me that is confused.
I had written the whole thing before I realised that is was the other one DAH!! just put it down to old age, I am going senile, and hey if someone has the same name....you can always jump on the band wagon.....especially if they say the same as you!!! ;0))