Quel avenir pour le setter irlandais en France ? - Exclusively Setters2024-03-28T16:15:34Zhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/forum/topics/865021:Topic:20590?commentId=865021%3AComment%3A20911&feed=yes&xn_auth=noBut still ...maybe a view bac…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-12-14:865021:Comment:405362007-12-14T08:52:49.433ZChristiane Lohmannhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/HorridoChristiane
But still ...maybe a view back into history can give some thoughts:<br />
Source - archive of the german pointer & setter club/ Christiane Lohmann<br />
1907 standard - IS 55 - 60 cm<br />
1921 standard - IS 55 - 65 cm<br />
<br />
We have the same discussions in Germany and we are on the way to set limits regarding size.<br />
No dog will be banned from breeding because of under- or oversize, but they all will be measured.<br />
Maybe the size will also enter the necessary breeding criteries, which are until now…
But still ...maybe a view back into history can give some thoughts:<br />
Source - archive of the german pointer & setter club/ Christiane Lohmann<br />
1907 standard - IS 55 - 60 cm<br />
1921 standard - IS 55 - 65 cm<br />
<br />
We have the same discussions in Germany and we are on the way to set limits regarding size.<br />
No dog will be banned from breeding because of under- or oversize, but they all will be measured.<br />
Maybe the size will also enter the necessary breeding criteries, which are until now hips/teeth/shooting test/CLAD/hunting test/show result.<br />
<br />
regards<br />
Christiane Haven't been here for a long…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-12-12:865021:Comment:401212007-12-12T18:13:31.863ZChristiane Lohmannhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/HorridoChristiane
Haven't been here for a long time. Nice discussions going on;-))<br />
<br />
Just 5 cents in this discussion Henk vs. Ursula coming from Germany:<br />
We breed pure working IS. Also sweden has some bloodlines originating from our kennel. We never had problems with our dogs to have them as perfect family and pet dogs. And they don't turn crazy during summer time, when ist is nesting period and they can not run either.<br />
So I wonder...what went wrong in sweden, if Ursula has the right 'feelings' ?<br />
<br />
Nevertheless, I…
Haven't been here for a long time. Nice discussions going on;-))<br />
<br />
Just 5 cents in this discussion Henk vs. Ursula coming from Germany:<br />
We breed pure working IS. Also sweden has some bloodlines originating from our kennel. We never had problems with our dogs to have them as perfect family and pet dogs. And they don't turn crazy during summer time, when ist is nesting period and they can not run either.<br />
So I wonder...what went wrong in sweden, if Ursula has the right 'feelings' ?<br />
<br />
Nevertheless, I know several breeders around here, who also keep telling:<br />
IS are best family companions when they come from non-working lines...<br />
Surely it makes it easier to sell puppies, being able to give them to 75ys old ladies living on 2nd floor in big cities. Less temperament, less desire to move, less demanding. But is that all ? Sell more puppies to EVERYBODY ? And pretend that it is unfair, when some people are regarding IS as a working gundog breed ?<br />
<br />
Ursula, I like the look of showdogs, but I doubt it will serve the breed to forget that IS are still gundogs. Whatever is done, the Irish Setter is a gundog first.<br />
NOT a showdog.<br />
Shows are nice, but a big meeting place of vanities. A judge is good, when he places your own dog high;-))) Shows should serve the breed to find correct build dogs...but maybe I am a dreamer.<br />
<br />
regards Christiane Just a thought, those who hav…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-12-07:865021:Comment:387772007-12-07T19:45:00.124ZSian Thomashttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Dawnmaen
Just a thought, those who have written to the SCC regarding this subject. Vanessa and I have copied our letters to the FCI as well. It may just widen the issue rather than it being allowed to stay just an internal issue as I feel it is a larger subject.
Just a thought, those who have written to the SCC regarding this subject. Vanessa and I have copied our letters to the FCI as well. It may just widen the issue rather than it being allowed to stay just an internal issue as I feel it is a larger subject. Fingers crossed that all goes…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-12-04:865021:Comment:378622007-12-04T13:41:31.021ZSusan Stonehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/SwissSusan
Fingers crossed that all goes well - and to the best interest of the breed. It would be a shame if a couple of individuals within the comitee of the Red Club were allowed to decide over the well-being of the Irish Setter in France.<br />
<br />
Espérons que tout se déroule bien, et dans le meilleur intérêt de la race! Il serait redoutable si quelques individus dans le comité du red Club pourraient décidé sur le sujet du bien-être du setter irlandais en France.
Fingers crossed that all goes well - and to the best interest of the breed. It would be a shame if a couple of individuals within the comitee of the Red Club were allowed to decide over the well-being of the Irish Setter in France.<br />
<br />
Espérons que tout se déroule bien, et dans le meilleur intérêt de la race! Il serait redoutable si quelques individus dans le comité du red Club pourraient décidé sur le sujet du bien-être du setter irlandais en France. This is not about 'Red Club F…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-12-04:865021:Comment:377962007-12-04T03:38:44.782ZMary S.http://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/MarySchweitzer
This is not about 'Red Club France" vs. "some show people! I own two Red Dogs, both of whom would fit your size requirement. They were bred to hunt but they are wonderful house companions.<br />
<br />
I don't think it's right to cut either group out of participating in shows - or breeding. The only things I am concerned with is in-breeding and over-breeding. Irish setters have 13-puppy litters, and breeding must be controlled or you end up with serious genetic consequences.
This is not about 'Red Club France" vs. "some show people! I own two Red Dogs, both of whom would fit your size requirement. They were bred to hunt but they are wonderful house companions.<br />
<br />
I don't think it's right to cut either group out of participating in shows - or breeding. The only things I am concerned with is in-breeding and over-breeding. Irish setters have 13-puppy litters, and breeding must be controlled or you end up with serious genetic consequences. Bonjour,
Nous avons maintena…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-11-24:865021:Comment:351532007-11-24T10:37:58.725ZJacques MATHIEUhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/asiyaisbaa
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Nous avons maintenant l'information que le sujet des directives de jugement, élaborabées par le Red Club, sera étudié par la commission zootechnie de la SCC le 13 décembre.<br />
Nous savons que des lettres sont déjà parvenues à M. Arthus, président de la SCC et que celui-ci assure que ce sujet fera l'objet de l'attention qui lui est dû.<br />
En conséquence, si des personnes souhaitent elles aussi montrer leur désaccord et appuyer notre combat, il est très urgent d'écrire à M. Arthus.<br />
<br />
Jacques
Bonjour,<br />
<br />
Nous avons maintenant l'information que le sujet des directives de jugement, élaborabées par le Red Club, sera étudié par la commission zootechnie de la SCC le 13 décembre.<br />
Nous savons que des lettres sont déjà parvenues à M. Arthus, président de la SCC et que celui-ci assure que ce sujet fera l'objet de l'attention qui lui est dû.<br />
En conséquence, si des personnes souhaitent elles aussi montrer leur désaccord et appuyer notre combat, il est très urgent d'écrire à M. Arthus.<br />
<br />
Jacques Great reading your joy is an…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-11-13:865021:Comment:323372007-11-13T14:15:26.883ZHenk ten Kloosterhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Setterset
Great reading your joy is an Irish setter "running and working naturally in the field" Sian. C'est le ton qui fait la musique!<br />
<br />
My experience is: more and more Irish setters are not capable of that anymore, because height&weight went up & up over last decades.<br />
<br />
If you have the opportunity of an open discussion with the Red Club France, you are lucky! Probably worlds best knowledged experts are in their circles.<br />
<br />
Personnally I object anyone imposing rules without saying why. So if what…
Great reading your joy is an Irish setter "running and working naturally in the field" Sian. C'est le ton qui fait la musique!<br />
<br />
My experience is: more and more Irish setters are not capable of that anymore, because height&weight went up & up over last decades.<br />
<br />
If you have the opportunity of an open discussion with the Red Club France, you are lucky! Probably worlds best knowledged experts are in their circles.<br />
<br />
Personnally I object anyone imposing rules without saying why. So if what you are writing is correct, they have a lot to explain.<br />
<br />
You may be angry in France about according to the FCI standard undersized Irish setters, in many other European countries there are still oversized winning.<br />
<br />
So rules=rules is in practice= interpretation of rules=ruling. I am not saying that Henk, th…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-11-13:865021:Comment:323352007-11-13T13:48:22.066ZSian Thomashttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Dawnmaen
I am not saying that Henk, the joy for me of an Irish setter is to see it running and working naturally in the field. But if the Red Club do not think that the breed fits their ideal that is not an excuse to change the fundamentals.<br />
<br />
I agree that this should be discussed with the Red Club, but they most importantly did not refer to the membership and they did not even promulgate the changes that they had imposed on their club web site. It does not appear to me that they have been open to…
I am not saying that Henk, the joy for me of an Irish setter is to see it running and working naturally in the field. But if the Red Club do not think that the breed fits their ideal that is not an excuse to change the fundamentals.<br />
<br />
I agree that this should be discussed with the Red Club, but they most importantly did not refer to the membership and they did not even promulgate the changes that they had imposed on their club web site. It does not appear to me that they have been open to discussion and this meeting which is between the Red Club, SCC and those who oppose the changes will be where the discussion takes place. But I couldn't have said it better myself Rules are Rules! Posts crossed here, so I did…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-11-13:865021:Comment:323332007-11-13T13:27:24.548ZHenk ten Kloosterhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Setterset
Posts crossed here, so I did not read yours Sian before posting.<br />
<br />
At least you do touch backgrounds for this topic. Do you think its wise to breed a working dog not able to gallop terrains in France?<br />
<br />
Can you provide motives of the Red Club France? In my eyes it is not decent neither wise to discuss ABOUT and not WITH a party in a topic on the basis of single-sided so coloured information.
Posts crossed here, so I did not read yours Sian before posting.<br />
<br />
At least you do touch backgrounds for this topic. Do you think its wise to breed a working dog not able to gallop terrains in France?<br />
<br />
Can you provide motives of the Red Club France? In my eyes it is not decent neither wise to discuss ABOUT and not WITH a party in a topic on the basis of single-sided so coloured information. Rules=rules. FCI=FCI. Right.…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2007-11-13:865021:Comment:323272007-11-13T12:59:01.902ZHenk ten Kloosterhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Setterset
Rules=rules. FCI=FCI. Right. Thats how simple life can be! Why would people want to know WHY? Continue saying to eachother that you agree with eachother all of this lengthy topic long. And don't ask the club about whom you are "discussing" WHY they did it. That way life stays simple!
Rules=rules. FCI=FCI. Right. Thats how simple life can be! Why would people want to know WHY? Continue saying to eachother that you agree with eachother all of this lengthy topic long. And don't ask the club about whom you are "discussing" WHY they did it. That way life stays simple!