Did the breed change or not since the sixties? - Exclusively Setters2024-03-29T01:54:40Zhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/forum/topics/did-the-breed-change-or-not?commentId=865021%3AComment%3A342228&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks Henk for a great topic…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-10:865021:Comment:3498052010-07-10T17:00:19.150Zkristi schrittwieserhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/kristischrittwieser
Thanks Henk for a great topic and all your information. I just spoke with my dogs breader. She knows you and said you were a wonderful man and a friend of hers. Unfortunately I don't want to start another conversation but she feels the American field trial IS might just be a candle in the wind. Hope to participate in your next topic.
Thanks Henk for a great topic and all your information. I just spoke with my dogs breader. She knows you and said you were a wonderful man and a friend of hers. Unfortunately I don't want to start another conversation but she feels the American field trial IS might just be a candle in the wind. Hope to participate in your next topic. I have to say that the Americ…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-10:865021:Comment:3497382010-07-10T11:11:18.534ZMichelle Websterhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/hooley
I have to say that the American Irish are not all like that. Some have a much more 'British' look and naturally go back to our breeding when you delve into their background, Kate Seymour's Cucuhllain line for instance. When I was over in the US for one of the National one year, every time a dog took my eye, I looked them up in a friend's catalogue, only to fiind that they were all from the same breeding, or had that breeding in them somewhere and they all went back eventually to British lines.…
I have to say that the American Irish are not all like that. Some have a much more 'British' look and naturally go back to our breeding when you delve into their background, Kate Seymour's Cucuhllain line for instance. When I was over in the US for one of the National one year, every time a dog took my eye, I looked them up in a friend's catalogue, only to fiind that they were all from the same breeding, or had that breeding in them somewhere and they all went back eventually to British lines. When I first arrived there I found the American Irish rather a shock to the system after what I'd been used to, not because I didn't like them, but mainly because of their size, they were so much bigger than ours, ( but now some of ours are fast catching up) but I found that after only 24 hrs, my eye adjusted and I didn't find them so different to look at. There, like here, there were those that I loved and those that I didn't care for and it had nothing whatsover to do with the fact that they were American! Eva wrote:I don't know why UK…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-10:865021:Comment:3497342010-07-10T10:46:34.204ZHenk ten Kloosterhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Setterset
Eva wrote:<i>I don't know why UK breeders didn't jump at the opportunity of using her dogs</i> Just for the benefit of providing info: some Sulhamstead lineage was maintained in the UK. Notably by Marjorie Jarosz (Joanma).<br />
<br />
The author of Mission Accomplished, Ferelith Somerfield, told me after the book was published she should have spend attention to Marjorie Jarosz (deceived).<br />
<br />
A lot of info is in <i>Irish Setters</i> by Gilbert Leighton-Boyce (London, 1973) pp 102 and further heading Work…
Eva wrote:<i>I don't know why UK breeders didn't jump at the opportunity of using her dogs</i> Just for the benefit of providing info: some Sulhamstead lineage was maintained in the UK. Notably by Marjorie Jarosz (Joanma).<br />
<br />
The author of Mission Accomplished, Ferelith Somerfield, told me after the book was published she should have spend attention to Marjorie Jarosz (deceived).<br />
<br />
A lot of info is in <i>Irish Setters</i> by Gilbert Leighton-Boyce (London, 1973) pp 102 and further heading Work (Obedience and Field). This UK group often had beneath Sulhamsteads show-lineage in, probably the reason they lost in the end.<br />
<br />
Leighton-Boyce already notes: <i>It is true that when the Irish come over here, even under unfamiliair conditions, they soon begin to show the locals a thing or two.</i><br />
<br />
In a nutshell: non UK-cultures were more succesfull entering Sulhamstead lineage, especially Ireland (S Natty), at the basis of winningest bitches-lines.<br />
And one was even bought by the Irish setter club of Denmark!<br />
<br />
If you would want to bring her lineage back to the UK that would be possible with the exception of FDSB-registered linebred to CLancy O'Ryan who is in the Hall of Fame, himself linebred to AM FCH S. Norse d'Or. Or spend a few years fighting bureaucracy, thats what I did.<br />
. Following on from your wishes…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-10:865021:Comment:3497302010-07-10T10:24:38.755Zeva ciechonskahttp://irishsetters.ning.com/xn/detail/u_0gijg39gsgi1q
Following on from your wishes Cheryl because I know we all wish the same for this beautiful breed.<br />
My fear for the show ring is that the future of the IS is being placed in the hands of judges who do not and never have owned the breed, who don't care about it, who judge it as a red dog flashing round the ring with no thought for the beautiful head, the quintissential character and personality and above all the type. We are already losing this on the continent where there are very few specialist…
Following on from your wishes Cheryl because I know we all wish the same for this beautiful breed.<br />
My fear for the show ring is that the future of the IS is being placed in the hands of judges who do not and never have owned the breed, who don't care about it, who judge it as a red dog flashing round the ring with no thought for the beautiful head, the quintissential character and personality and above all the type. We are already losing this on the continent where there are very few specialist judges to preserve the balance. We must pull back before it becomes too late.<br />
This discussion has been frustrating, heated, passionate but best of all it has been an amazing exchange of views giving us (definitatly me anyway) much food for thought. I am sure we will all come together to discuss many other topics in the future.<br />
Henk....think of another subject for us to get our teeth into......something for the cold winter nights..........you have all summer to research!! Also want to thank everyone w…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-10:865021:Comment:3497292010-07-10T10:22:08.428ZCheryl Goreyhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/CherylGorey
Also want to thank everyone who contributed to this lively discussion. It has been great sharing information and views and getting all opinions and I have enjoyed being part of it. cheers
Also want to thank everyone who contributed to this lively discussion. It has been great sharing information and views and getting all opinions and I have enjoyed being part of it. cheers Thanks Henk for stirring the…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-10:865021:Comment:3496732010-07-10T07:21:56.311ZCheryl Goreyhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/CherylGorey
Thanks Henk for stirring the passion within a lot of us here. The subject is an extremely important one and I'm sure it has many members thinking about the changes in the breed over the past 50 years (and even further back). Hopefully it will remind us all of the important part we play in the future of this magnificent breed.<br />
<br />
My hopes for the breed are:<br />
Improved health and longevity;<br />
Preservation of the magnificent temperament that we know and love;<br />
Where possible, these wonderful dogs have an…
Thanks Henk for stirring the passion within a lot of us here. The subject is an extremely important one and I'm sure it has many members thinking about the changes in the breed over the past 50 years (and even further back). Hopefully it will remind us all of the important part we play in the future of this magnificent breed.<br />
<br />
My hopes for the breed are:<br />
Improved health and longevity;<br />
Preservation of the magnificent temperament that we know and love;<br />
Where possible, these wonderful dogs have an opportunity to perform their function, but no-one should be denied the privilege of being owned by this extraordinary breed and enjoy their hobbies, whatever they may be!<br />
Never lose sight of the essence, structure and function of THE IRISH SETTER and DO NOT breed for the purpose of wins in showrings.<br />
<br />
Best wishes Henk for your future experiences in the wilderness. Hope you pop into the site from time to time (even if only to stir us all up :-))<br />
<br />
cheers, Cheryl I agree with Eva Henk. It has…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-10:865021:Comment:3496362010-07-10T01:08:20.539Zkristi schrittwieserhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/kristischrittwieser
I agree with Eva Henk. It has been an amazing subject that I would like to be able to look back and refer to. I would also like to document it and send it to the ISCA.
I agree with Eva Henk. It has been an amazing subject that I would like to be able to look back and refer to. I would also like to document it and send it to the ISCA. I have checked the books that…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-10:865021:Comment:3496352010-07-10T00:27:53.112ZCheryl Goreyhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/CherylGorey
I have checked the books that I have and I have "The Irish Setter in Word and Picture" by William C. Thompson. published by Denlinger's 1954; and "The New Irish Setter" by same author 1978 - Eleveth Printing Howel Book House Copyright 1968; 1967; 1954; I must read them both to compare!!
I have checked the books that I have and I have "The Irish Setter in Word and Picture" by William C. Thompson. published by Denlinger's 1954; and "The New Irish Setter" by same author 1978 - Eleveth Printing Howel Book House Copyright 1968; 1967; 1954; I must read them both to compare!! Don't take this Discusssion o…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-09:865021:Comment:3496112010-07-09T22:37:52.803Zeva ciechonskahttp://irishsetters.ning.com/xn/detail/u_0gijg39gsgi1q
Don't take this Discusssion off the site Henk.....it would be good to keep it on to refer to. I think this is a subject that we can all come back to.
Don't take this Discusssion off the site Henk.....it would be good to keep it on to refer to. I think this is a subject that we can all come back to. Henk, I have been trying to g…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-09:865021:Comment:3496092010-07-09T22:32:20.011Zeva ciechonskahttp://irishsetters.ning.com/xn/detail/u_0gijg39gsgi1q
Henk, I have been trying to get hold of a copy of Mission Accomplished but it is out of print but I think I know of a source. I wasn't around in the late 50's early 60's so I never saw Mrs Nagle's dogs. All I know is that when her trainer retired her IS kennel was disbanded - totally. I don't know why she didn't persevere and I don't know why UK breeders didn't jump at the opportunity of using her dogs. As I say, it is an anomaly. Maybe someone can answer.<br />
As far as PRA was concerned, at the…
Henk, I have been trying to get hold of a copy of Mission Accomplished but it is out of print but I think I know of a source. I wasn't around in the late 50's early 60's so I never saw Mrs Nagle's dogs. All I know is that when her trainer retired her IS kennel was disbanded - totally. I don't know why she didn't persevere and I don't know why UK breeders didn't jump at the opportunity of using her dogs. As I say, it is an anomaly. Maybe someone can answer.<br />
As far as PRA was concerned, at the time the only 100% way was to test mate though, for me, to deliberately mate a dog to a blind bitch, keep at least 6 puppies until they were 6 months old then test them and put them down is abhorent as was deliberately breeding blind stock to promote further test mating. I would far rather that breeding programmes were based on credited clear lines. Thank god we now have a DNA test for this.<br />
You are right, Mrs Nagle's life was conflict.....far more interesting and rewarding than compromise.......