Grooming an English Setter - Exclusively Setters2024-03-29T02:17:27Zhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/forum/topics/grooming-an-english-setter?feed=yes&xn_auth=noIn addition to deleting her c…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2014-02-01:865021:Comment:11308502014-02-01T04:38:42.974ZFinding_Beauhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/HammerBeau
<p>In addition to deleting her comment on 18 June 2012 at 9.54pm in the forum topic ‘Over trimming or shaving of the Show Irish Red Setter’ (refer my previous comment on page 3), Michelle has now deleted her comment on 19 December 2012 at 4.27am on page 2 of this forum topic in which she said:</p>
<p><strong><i>“There are plenty of very experienced Setter groomers out there in Australia</i>.</strong></p>
<p><em>As for grooming an English i never use a mars coat king & never use a…</em></p>
<p>In addition to deleting her comment on 18 June 2012 at 9.54pm in the forum topic ‘Over trimming or shaving of the Show Irish Red Setter’ (refer my previous comment on page 3), Michelle has now deleted her comment on 19 December 2012 at 4.27am on page 2 of this forum topic in which she said:</p>
<p><strong><i>“There are plenty of very experienced Setter groomers out there in Australia</i>.</strong></p>
<p><em>As for grooming an English i never use a mars coat king & never use a Duples.</em></p>
<p><em><strong>English are very easy to groom providing owners are prepared to do the work & sadly i find very few aren't willing to put the time in.</strong></em></p>
<p><em><strong>I groom alot of Setters here & only a handful work on the coats & most otherss bring them in butchered from chopping the knots out .</strong></em></p>
<p><em><strong>The worst thing i find</strong> is owners expressing what they want & what end result they get.</em></p>
<p><em>We will question an owner over & over with many things they say explaining what there words mean to a groomer is most likely not what they mean & will end up with</em></p>
<p><em>But some are very sure that is what they want until they collect there dog but we now the lengths we have gone to explaining.& we show them the Setters here <strong>so they can't say they don't understand but some read books & things others have said & think that is gospel</strong> but each coat can also play a role in the final outcome</em></p>
<p><em><strong>We groom alot of butchered Setters but when the owners explain to us what they want i totally see why the dog is groomed in such a way .</strong></em></p>
<p><em>We hand strip any Setter we groom unless it has been clipped many times prior to us & then will assess the coat & whether it could be strip & then determine how keen the owners are .</em></p>
<p><em>Blending the neck is very easy , a duplex on the other hand can ruin an area very easily & make an easy job harder.”</em></p>
<p>Even though there were only months between her comments, she has completely contradicted herself. The truth is that there are only a handful of very experienced groomers of English Setters in Australia, and this issue has very little to do with the 2 questions I asked. Choosing to degrade other groomers and Setter pet owners on a public forum has absolutely nothing to do with the 2 questions I asked.</p>
<p>This situation is relevant to my blog “Choices”. I believe the best way to handle down-right mean spirited human beings is to stand up to them.</p>
<p>By the way my comment on page 3 and goodness knows where this comment will end up relate to page 2.</p> Yesterday I read the forum to…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2014-01-27:865021:Comment:11306572014-01-27T11:28:42.413ZFinding_Beauhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/HammerBeau
<p>Yesterday I read the forum topic “Over trimming or shaving of the Show Irish Red Setter” and was particularly interested in the comment of the Australian groomer/show exhibitor because this was in complete contradiction to what she wrote in my forum topic. It appears she noticed this as well because unless I am going blind she deleted her comment today. As it turns out, I copied her comment which says: </p>
<p><em>“But practical over pretty only applies if the owners have been told the…</em></p>
<p>Yesterday I read the forum topic “Over trimming or shaving of the Show Irish Red Setter” and was particularly interested in the comment of the Australian groomer/show exhibitor because this was in complete contradiction to what she wrote in my forum topic. It appears she noticed this as well because unless I am going blind she deleted her comment today. As it turns out, I copied her comment which says: </p>
<p><em>“But practical over pretty only applies if the owners have been told the options, it isn't a groomers job to do what they prefer unless the dog is in such a state there isn't an option or the coat quality means it may not be doable. </em></p>
<p><em>Groomers are there to do what the breed should look like with any changes done with consent of the owners. </em></p>
<p><em>I am a full time groomer & <strong>80% of our clients want the breed to look like the breed</strong>, you can certainly do a modified trim but some groomers just do what is easy for them & that isn't what where paid for. </em></p>
<p><em>I groom a number of Setters & <strong>all want them in show coat condition</strong> they also have to do there part by working on the top coats where required but i find <strong>most want to go through a stage of having there dog look pretty</strong> & then if need be go for practical latter on but a good Setter coat is very easy to maintain. </em></p>
<p><em>I have groomed a few Setters that <strong>have been butchered by groomers</strong> & it will be a long term project to get the coats back & <strong>these owners are very keen</strong> ,they unfortunately weren't told what the groomer was planning to do & sadly <strong>most groomers have no clue what a Setter is anyway or the damage they can do to coats in one session. </strong></em></p>
<p><em>We are popular with clients because we hand strip coats & educate the owners of varying breeds how to do it & with what tools & send them off with there homeworks to do & they love seeing the result.”</em></p>
<p>This Australian ES member did not comment to be helpful. I knew this at the time. Even though I was labelled as “prickly” by another nasty ES member who has since left the site, there was a valid reason for my response which was constrained. I could have said a lot more. </p>
<p>I can handle being bullied and targeted but I am pleased that ES members do not have to put up with this nonsense anymore (unless the lurkers come back). </p>
<p>Fortunately I started this topic so I can close this again before anything nasty is said.</p> Today I was taught to trim th…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2012-12-24:865021:Comment:10133372012-12-24T10:18:20.732ZJOANNEhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/JOANNE
<p>Today I was taught to trim this area with thinning scissors. Susan, you will be fine and with some practice will get confident. You do not show your English so if you make a mistake, well it will grow back. Goodluck.</p>
<p>Today I was taught to trim this area with thinning scissors. Susan, you will be fine and with some practice will get confident. You do not show your English so if you make a mistake, well it will grow back. Goodluck.</p> I view the statements made ab…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2012-12-24:865021:Comment:10133362012-12-24T10:07:04.103ZFinding_Beauhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/HammerBeau
<p>I view the statements made about me e.g. <em>English Setter exhibitors dismiss your remarks as simply nonsense; absolutely such absurd statements to make; when people over step the mark making absurd remarks and indulge themselves; dedicated breeders and exhibitors and the breed constantly portrayed in such a negative manner; etc.</em> as harassment. I am not going to bother Gene with this matter. However, if this harassment against me continues I will be taking other action against this…</p>
<p>I view the statements made about me e.g. <em>English Setter exhibitors dismiss your remarks as simply nonsense; absolutely such absurd statements to make; when people over step the mark making absurd remarks and indulge themselves; dedicated breeders and exhibitors and the breed constantly portrayed in such a negative manner; etc.</em> as harassment. I am not going to bother Gene with this matter. However, if this harassment against me continues I will be taking other action against this Australian member.</p>
<p>I did not bring up the issue of English Setter breeding and exhibiting. An overseas member talked about her opinions. She is entitled to do this.</p>
<p>I did not say anything in my responses which degraded English Setter breeders or exhibitors. I did repeat some opinions of retired breeders I know and if we were in a court of law, they would happily testify to this. I do not deserve to be degraded and abused for this.</p>
<p>I did not say “there was no one in Australia who can groom an English Setter”.</p>
<p>The truth is that there are very few experienced English Setter groomers in Australia because there are very few English Setter owners in Australia. There are 16 breeders listed on Dogzonline. 2 no longer breed English Setters. 1 breeds working English Setters. 1 is Annie’s breeder (I will talk about her when I complete Annie’s story) and the remaining breeders breed infrequently. On the other hand there are 239 Golden Retriever breeders. What does this tell any rational human being about the English Setter breed in Australia.</p>
<p>I was personally labelled as “prickly” by a member who has always behaved nastily towards me. The truth is that I was generous in my response. I believed the comments of the member who is a groomer to be offensive towards owners of English Setters in general, and particularly towards her clients. Even though she has not publicly named her clients, because there are so few owners of English Setters in Australia, if another client or someone who lived in the local area read these comments, they would be able to identify the owner/s. This groomer has made these degrading comments on a public forum. If her clients discover what she has been saying about them, not only will they not come back and tell their friends how they have been treated, they might also decide their next dog is not going to be an English Setter. What this groomer is failing to recognise is that these owners care enough about their English Setters to buy books on grooming and to take their dogs to a groomer. These owners have not been given an opportunity to present their side of the story. None of these comments were helpful or relevant to the question I asked. I am entitled to say this. I do not deserve to be personally labelled and abused.</p>
<p>I could say a lot more but I feel completely disgusted and I have better things to do with my time. I sincerely regret I asked the question of what tool owners of English Setters (not Irish Setters) use to groom this particular part of the head of an English Setter. This is no big deal to me. The primary reason I groom my English Setters is for health reasons. Hobson is only now starting to grow his coat. The last thing I would want to do is thin out his coat anywhere!! I posted this topic purely out of interest. One of my best friends is a retired English Setter breeder. I can ask her. We talk often on the phone but because grooming is not a big deal, I never think to ask her. She does not have a computer.</p>
<p>I am going to close the topic now.</p> Hi Guys
We now…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2012-12-24:865021:Comment:10134292012-12-24T09:56:36.342ZJOANNEhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/JOANNE
<p>Hi Guys</p>
<p> We now have a lovely Orange Belton girl. She is my first show English Setter and I have to say the help offered to me had been great. Michelle has offered plenty of advice and took the time to write a long and detailed e mail explaining what to do in regards to trimming and maintenance of the coat. Indeed today we spent the afternoon with our girls breeder learning trimming.</p>
<p>At times on this site I feel discussions become heated for no reason, which is a…</p>
<p>Hi Guys</p>
<p> We now have a lovely Orange Belton girl. She is my first show English Setter and I have to say the help offered to me had been great. Michelle has offered plenty of advice and took the time to write a long and detailed e mail explaining what to do in regards to trimming and maintenance of the coat. Indeed today we spent the afternoon with our girls breeder learning trimming.</p>
<p>At times on this site I feel discussions become heated for no reason, which is a shame, I too in the past have becomed involved in heated arguments which really achieve nothing in the end. </p> You seem to have missed the d…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2012-12-24:865021:Comment:10132412012-12-24T08:13:20.185ZGreg Brownehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/GregBrowne
<p>You seem to have missed the discussion there is no one in Australia qualified to help her so over you</p>
<p>You seem to have missed the discussion there is no one in Australia qualified to help her so over you</p> So, leave it to them to speak…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2012-12-24:865021:Comment:10131562012-12-24T08:10:30.077ZAngela Clarkehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/AngelaClarke
<p>So, leave it to them to speak for themselves if they feel the same, and end this childish " must have the last word"</p>
<p>Anyone got an anser to Susans question ?</p>
<p>So, leave it to them to speak for themselves if they feel the same, and end this childish " must have the last word"</p>
<p>Anyone got an anser to Susans question ?</p> Despite her claims there is n…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2012-12-24:865021:Comment:10133192012-12-24T01:33:29.188ZGreg Brownehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/GregBrowne
<p>Despite her claims there is no one in Australia who can groom an English Setter as previously stated most exhibitors are very skilled. Michelle is acknowlged internationally as an exceptional presenter of all the Setters..I cannot think of anyone who has not passed on their skills when asked often trimming out dogs at shows to asisst novice exhibitors.</p>
<p>Its iis very frustrating to have dedicated breeders and exhibitors and the breed to be constantly portrayed in in such negative…</p>
<p>Despite her claims there is no one in Australia who can groom an English Setter as previously stated most exhibitors are very skilled. Michelle is acknowlged internationally as an exceptional presenter of all the Setters..I cannot think of anyone who has not passed on their skills when asked often trimming out dogs at shows to asisst novice exhibitors.</p>
<p>Its iis very frustrating to have dedicated breeders and exhibitors and the breed to be constantly portrayed in in such negative manner by Susan.</p>
<p>.</p> Greg, this post is asking for…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2012-12-23:865021:Comment:10134152012-12-23T23:45:22.347ZCatherine Carterhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/CatherineCarter
Greg, this post is asking for help in grooming English Settersin Australia........if you cannot give any ,why are you posting?Or are you able to give names and contact numbers of experienced people near Susan who can help her with grooming her dogs?
Greg, this post is asking for help in grooming English Settersin Australia........if you cannot give any ,why are you posting?Or are you able to give names and contact numbers of experienced people near Susan who can help her with grooming her dogs? Ba humbug.....where is the sp…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2012-12-23:865021:Comment:10134132012-12-23T23:25:17.893ZTorie Lancasterhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/TorieLancaster
<p>Ba humbug.....where is the spirit of Christmas!</p>
<p>Christmas is the time for indulgence...is it not??</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ba humbug.....where is the spirit of Christmas!</p>
<p>Christmas is the time for indulgence...is it not??</p>
<p> </p>