Mom has D hips - would you buy a pup? - Exclusively Setters2024-03-28T19:12:16Zhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/forum/topics/mom-has-d-hips-would-you-buy?commentId=865021%3AComment%3A351031&feed=yes&xn_auth=noEstelle
Please view the attac…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2011-12-29:865021:Comment:8692062011-12-29T13:02:04.898ZBridget Simpsonhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/BridgetSimpson
<p>Estelle</p>
<p>Please view the attachment</p>
<p>Estelle</p>
<p>Please view the attachment</p> I will tell you something tha…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-08-07:865021:Comment:3616692010-08-07T08:04:36.114ZPat Aldridgehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/PatAldridge
I will tell you something that may throw a little light on HD & its heritabilty. In New Zealand there WAS a breeder of many years' experience in their chosen breed (which I will not mention but it was not a Setter breed LOL!), an experienced judge, an intelligent person who did a LOT of winning with dogs bred & kept, & whose new puppy owners did very well in the showring. I knew this breeder. Puppies were well reared. exercised sensibly, adults kept in wonderful condition whether…
I will tell you something that may throw a little light on HD & its heritabilty. In New Zealand there WAS a breeder of many years' experience in their chosen breed (which I will not mention but it was not a Setter breed LOL!), an experienced judge, an intelligent person who did a LOT of winning with dogs bred & kept, & whose new puppy owners did very well in the showring. I knew this breeder. Puppies were well reared. exercised sensibly, adults kept in wonderful condition whether show or retired. ALL stock was xrayed for HD. Only CLEAR stock was used for breeding - no exceptions made. For years all went well - then a mating between 2 HD CLEAR dogs, ****that were clear for over eight generations****, produced an entire litter of dysplastic puppies. The breeder stopped breeding in that breed. As they said, until a genetic ID of the genes causing HD is available, there is no point in attempting to deal with a condition that is not understood, nor identifiable genetically.<br />
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If you are in a country such as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, where the genepool is small, AND one is dedicated to preserving what little English lines there are, one has to be VERY VERY careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater... We are in 21.century so knowl…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-08-04:865021:Comment:3607412010-08-04T23:44:20.999ZVojna Medvedechttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/VojnaMedvedec
We are in 21.century so knowledge about breeding as about so many things connected with medicine has developed so much.Genetics is the top science for my opinion and we should engage the known veterinary scientists to give their opinion about the problem with HD.<br />
Ok I agree with Margaret D. and Eva C.and would never buy the puppy with high grade of dysplasia by parents,but I am not quite sure if we can be quite satisfied with the parent,s scores as there were so many grand,grand etc.parents…
We are in 21.century so knowledge about breeding as about so many things connected with medicine has developed so much.Genetics is the top science for my opinion and we should engage the known veterinary scientists to give their opinion about the problem with HD.<br />
Ok I agree with Margaret D. and Eva C.and would never buy the puppy with high grade of dysplasia by parents,but I am not quite sure if we can be quite satisfied with the parent,s scores as there were so many grand,grand etc.parents that have not been ever scored in the past as simply nobody did it.<br />
We have to be cautious with parents and possibly grandparents if they are younger dogs and have been x rayed,but surely nobody can grant that even from the best lines and exc.scored parents some HD speciman in the litter can not happen.On the other side as Eva says beeing stud dog owner she certainly knows the scores of her dog and she as responsible person would not give her dog to mate an unknown bitch,but are all the stud dogs, owners so responsible and do not give her stud dogs for matings with unscored bitches,not to mention those brood bitches,owners who with the idea of not breaking the line would continue to use such females in further reproduction???!!!<br />
Every breeder would like to have the healthy and standard typy litter what is not easy but not impossible if we forget money interest which is devil,s business!In any case breeding is a hard and responsible work!<br />
We all know there are so many anomalities which can happen in breeding....... high tails,carriage a lot of breeders say can also be connected with bad hips?Hockney movers?And how many champions we all know allover and also used for breeding- is there not also possible to be the influence of the recesive gene?.<br />
I am happy to find such discussions and think they should be carried on for the benefit of our lovely breed and for the higher degree of knowledge for irish setters,breeders and owners. I would never never buy a pup…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-17:865021:Comment:3528172010-07-17T12:37:43.076ZMarthe L.http://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/MartheLouise
I would never never buy a puppy from this litter. My dog's hip score is D, and he is have more and more problems with his hips. She is only four years old, she can get problems later on. Health should be priority number one when breeding.
I would never never buy a puppy from this litter. My dog's hip score is D, and he is have more and more problems with his hips. She is only four years old, she can get problems later on. Health should be priority number one when breeding. Credit to you and Camilla ;o)tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-15:865021:Comment:3522162010-07-15T20:56:45.540ZCarmel Murphyhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Clannrua
Credit to you and Camilla ;o)
Credit to you and Camilla ;o) Oh Carmel, by the way.......I…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-15:865021:Comment:3522152010-07-15T20:38:10.399Zeva ciechonskahttp://irishsetters.ning.com/xn/detail/u_0gijg39gsgi1q
Oh Carmel, by the way.......I am just the stud dog owner. It's Camilla who bred my bitch so credit for the litter must go to her. I believe she has in her puppy contract that all the pups from her litters are to be hip scored whether they are bred from or not. It is the best way to monitor this condition.
Oh Carmel, by the way.......I am just the stud dog owner. It's Camilla who bred my bitch so credit for the litter must go to her. I believe she has in her puppy contract that all the pups from her litters are to be hip scored whether they are bred from or not. It is the best way to monitor this condition. Oh Carmel....I wish mine were…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-15:865021:Comment:3521822010-07-15T19:32:29.924Zeva ciechonskahttp://irishsetters.ning.com/xn/detail/u_0gijg39gsgi1q
Oh Carmel....I wish mine were as good as my dogs!!!!!!! I am most definitely dysplastic...plus the arthritis....I have no hope!!!!!!!<br />
Dee to answer your first point....most breeders now go to experienced radiographers or vets who know how to take a good and clear x-ray. The BVA return plates that they cannot read or where they feel the dog isn't positioned correctly, so that is not a problem anymore.<br />
Could you expand on your second point please.<br />
In the UK we can still breed and register litters…
Oh Carmel....I wish mine were as good as my dogs!!!!!!! I am most definitely dysplastic...plus the arthritis....I have no hope!!!!!!!<br />
Dee to answer your first point....most breeders now go to experienced radiographers or vets who know how to take a good and clear x-ray. The BVA return plates that they cannot read or where they feel the dog isn't positioned correctly, so that is not a problem anymore.<br />
Could you expand on your second point please.<br />
In the UK we can still breed and register litters from dogs that have not been hip scored whereas on the Continent it is not possible. I think the time will come when the UK KC will fall into line.<br />
I had my dog hip scored for two reasons....firstly because he was being used at stud and following on from that because it was the responsible thing to do and secondly, in this litigious society a breeder has to safeguard herself and her breeding stock or leave herself vulnerable should things go wrong.<br />
Cheryl makes a valuable point. Maybe this bitch is the only option to continue her line. In which case mating her to a 'B' hip dog is the best way.<br />
In any case, Estelle has answered her own question.........if there is the slightest doubt in her mind then she must walk away.<br />
Good luck Estelle!! I agree that a "B" is a good…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-15:865021:Comment:3520242010-07-15T11:55:02.330ZCarmel Murphyhttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/Clannrua
I agree that a "B" is a good score here (BVA!! ) I believe we need to try to lower our scores going by the BVA mean score which is at the moment 15 or lower!! So your dogs have very good scores!! We have to work with animals we have here!! And a good breeder does not just look at the hips only but must look at all health issues before mating takes place!! Well done on your excellent hips Eva;o))
I agree that a "B" is a good score here (BVA!! ) I believe we need to try to lower our scores going by the BVA mean score which is at the moment 15 or lower!! So your dogs have very good scores!! We have to work with animals we have here!! And a good breeder does not just look at the hips only but must look at all health issues before mating takes place!! Well done on your excellent hips Eva;o)) Carmel, many continental kenn…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-15:865021:Comment:3520032010-07-15T10:40:26.405Zeva ciechonskahttp://irishsetters.ning.com/xn/detail/u_0gijg39gsgi1q
Carmel, many continental kennel clubs won't register litters from dogs higher than a 'C' hip. Switzerland and Sweden only register from 'A' or 'B' hip matings. When you think that a 'B' hip in Sweden is the equivalent of total 6 (out of 106) in the UK it can wipe out virtually otherwise fit healthy and sound moving dogs and open the door to dogs with other defects which breeders could be forced to use just because they have a good score. A low hip score is no guarantee of sound movement nor low…
Carmel, many continental kennel clubs won't register litters from dogs higher than a 'C' hip. Switzerland and Sweden only register from 'A' or 'B' hip matings. When you think that a 'B' hip in Sweden is the equivalent of total 6 (out of 106) in the UK it can wipe out virtually otherwise fit healthy and sound moving dogs and open the door to dogs with other defects which breeders could be forced to use just because they have a good score. A low hip score is no guarantee of sound movement nor low hip scores.<br />
Irish Setter breeders in the UK are getting better and more and more breeding stock is being hip scored every year. It adds another string to your bow in your endeavours to breed healthy dogs. However, GSDs have subscribed to hip scoring programmes for years and they are still no further down the line of eradicating this problem.<br />
I will breed from my young bitch next year. Her hip score is a total of 7. Her sire is 8, her dam is 'A' hip. The whole litter has been scored and all her siblings are either'A' or 'B'. The dog I am planning to use is an 'A' hip..........we will see................ A) Hip scores are sometimes o…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2010-07-15:865021:Comment:3519692010-07-15T10:35:56.155ZDee Rancehttp://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/DeeRance
A) Hip scores are sometimes only as good as the radiographer that takes them, if the dog is manipulated incorrectly then the score can be worse than it actually is.<br />
B) Genetically speaking you could have an horrendous score in a dog from two parents that are fine.<br />
So it is a guide not a fact, just because the parents are fine doesn't necessarily mean that the puppies will be fine and vice versa....nature v nurture. But you should always beware at that kind of score
A) Hip scores are sometimes only as good as the radiographer that takes them, if the dog is manipulated incorrectly then the score can be worse than it actually is.<br />
B) Genetically speaking you could have an horrendous score in a dog from two parents that are fine.<br />
So it is a guide not a fact, just because the parents are fine doesn't necessarily mean that the puppies will be fine and vice versa....nature v nurture. But you should always beware at that kind of score