Hi all. Theres a new embassador of the breed in a new Contry,Brasil.
Its "Sebastião do Porto Rio" ,Irws male with two months who travel yesterday to S.Paulo to live with a family who have already an Irish Red Setter.
Best Regards
Pedro Completo
www.portoriosetter.com
To Terry.
Which males are all related ???? Has anyone been over using ?
I agree, breeders have to be careful, but I would not say that we are in need of outcross, that should alwasy remain as very last resort...
A breed survives on the talents of breeders, not on the quick fix of outcrossing..... I think we had a person here in the USA [cousins] that tried to bypass the hard work and went for outcrossing, no..:-(
The breed has available genepool, but breeders must put aside their persoal issues and accept all pure bred IRWS as equal and make great use of what is available......With global access, semen can come from anywhere these days.......
Hello Christina I was speaking about the dogs here in Ireland.No we are not over using any one line but we are running out of different blood lines.If you look at the dogs in the UK you will see the same is happening there.I Prehaps the breeders in the USA are not in the same situation yet but it is only a matter of time before you are.Some people wish to stick their heads in the sand and say all is well in the world.Re the person who went for ourcrossing in the USA is it not a fact that the dogs used in the outcrossing had english setter blood.I would not consider this outcrossing.Here in Ireland Irish Breeders have bred IRWS to IRS for generations it was Mrs Cuddy who explained this to me thirty one years ago.This is not something new and I would not be considering it if I did not feel it was not necessary.This is not a quick fix but a ongoing fact that has to be looked at and responded too.Re global access that is great but were do we find the dogs with different blood lines.I believe there is a new report on genetic diversity in which the KC London was involved which stated that due to the loss of genetic diversity.The KC London would have to consider outcrossing.The Irish Kennel Club and the IRWSC both which have involved in outcrossing programme do not consider outcrossing as a quick fix but rather as a method to preserve the IRWS as healthy and a genetically diverse breed.I know you may find this hard to accept but as the Country of origin it is our duty to preserve the breed.I wish to thank you for your honest opinions. Terry
Hello Terry,
I never questioned Irelands duty and commitment in preserving the breed and I was aware that way back when, it was done, breeding occasionally back to Irish Red Setters, did they ever make use of parti colored IS born and included them into the IRWS gene pool ?????
The last major outcross program brought CLAD and PPC, what sort of safe guards will be in place to avoid new issues that could be brought in.
How many IRWS on average are imported back to Ireland for breed diversity etc.....or has it been pretty much just local dogs.....
I will agree with you in that our breed diversity here could go fast when rankings go up and everyone wants to breed to the top dogs:-((
Some experts recommend to make use of as many dogs from a litter as possible [as long as they pass health clearances]................
Christina
"did they ever make use of parti colored IS born and included them into the IRWS gene pool ?????"
Yes, John Kerr in the UK bred red and whites from two red parents in at least three litters in the 1970's, Rushfield Great Lady, Rushfield Smudge I and Rushfield Jill were all red and whites with two red parents. The KC at that time still had a B register and John was able to register the red and white puppies as IRWS on the B register, they got full registration in 1979. This was perfectly legal . Terry can probably remember some more in Ireland.
"The last major outcross program brought CLAD and PPC, what sort of safe guards will be in place to avoid new issues that could be brought in.?"
Not sure what you mean by this? The last outcross programme started in 1989, after the CLAD litters had been born in the UK and CLAD was recognised in the breed. PPC was recognised in the breed in the UK in the early 90's. Ireland has not had any CLAD litters and PPC doesnt seem to be a problem there either. Presumably the genes for both had been around but only surfaced with close line breeding on too few dogs in the early years in the UK? Terry has already said that if there were another outcross programme any red dogs that would be used would be subject to all the same health checks as the IRWS, and the breeding stock in Ireland now has a pretty comprehensive screening programme
"How many IRWS on average are imported back to Ireland for breed diversity etc.....or has it been pretty much just local dogs....."
Jim Sheridan imported Rushfield dogs from John Kerr in Scotland, and has also imported from Holland. Isabel Somerfield exported IRWS from the UK to Ireland, David Byrne and Terry O'Leary have both owned Bawnrhus, and Terry imported a bitch from France, and I dont think its a secret that he is about to import another IRWS with some older and less usual breeding behind it . I have sent eight IRWS over to Ireland ,north and south, of whom three have been bred from, and Ann Miller (Mizen) from Co Cork came over to Scotland to use one of my dogs as a stud. I can think of three people from the UK who moved to Ireland to live with their IRWS and whose dogs have become part of the Irish gene pool .The McAleer's in Belfast have an Anjuli dog from Carol Pipe in Scotland. There is actually good awareness nowadays in Ireland of the need to make best use of the international gene pool beyond the national boundaries
Margaret
Thanks Margaret for all the info. I don't consider the 1989 outcorss the major, was talking about the revival that took place over many years...
I wasn't really trying to point fingers in regards to CLAD, since it also is present in IS, I thought it was brought in from the revival days..
IS carry PRA and possibly Epi, besides many others, so how could IRWS specific test be of help? Unless of course Irish Red Setters in Ireland are lucky and are not afflicted....
Not sure if I can blame close breeding/line breed for all evils, don't matter how close or how far apart they are when you deal with dominate genes...and at times we should thank close breeding for all the life threatening issues that came about, otherwise we would be gambling with each breeding even with least related....
To get a better perspective, how many IRWS are in Ireland at the moment, ???
You wrote "The last major outcross program brought CLAD and PPC". What do you base that on?
Yes, we know now that CLAD is in red Irish Setters, but have you any evidence that it wasnt in the few red and whites before the revival in the seventies? The reds that were used in the revival had shared ancestry with the red and whites, thats why they were used
PPC was found in IRWS in the UK in the 1990s, but curiously I cant find any references to PPC in red Irish Setters? So why do you think it came into IRWS from the 1970's outcrosses
Very little PPC has been found in Irish bred dogs, compared with the UK stock. There is one line down from Snow King of Tormore , a son of Harlequin, which has a few cases of PPC, and another line down from a mating the Canon did with a UK dog Fieldtop Latest Edition (another Harlequin descendant) which has also produced a few cases of PPC. Otherwise PPC hasnt shown up in the working Irish dogs, which I suspect probably has something to do with them not having Harlequin (or very little Harlequin) in their pedigrees. In contrast the UK dogs have Harlequin as the bottleneck in their pedigrees, and he can occur 20 - 30 times in some UK pedigrees. Where PPC came from further back from Harlequin is difficult to guess. Have you any ideas?
Margaret
"To get a better perspective, how many IRWS are in Ireland at the moment, ???"
The IKC doesnt publish figures of registrations. For the IRWS bred in N.Ireland, some are registered in the UK, some in Ireland, which complicates things.
There could be around 500 IRWS in Ireland, maybe more, guessing from the number of known litters . Almost all of these are primarily working bred, and predominantly Craigrua/Rushfield breeding. Very few IRWS are shown in Ireland
The problem with importing from Europe is that the serious working dogs in Europe are also mostly from Craigrua/Rushfield breeding and a little Lougherne, so bringing them back doesnt bring in different lines
There are a few dogs in Sweden from older Irish breeding, and a few in Central Europe who are descendants of Rushfield Smudge.
And in Holland there are Gerard Mirck's red and whites, from Moanruad breeding through Harry
PPC was found in IRWS in the UK in the 1990s, but curiously I cant find any references to PPC in red Irish Setters? So why do you think it came into IRWS from the 1970's outcrosses
Very little PPC has been found in Irish bred dogs, compared with the UK stock. There is one line down from Snow King of Tormore , a son of Harlequin, which has a few cases of PPC, and another line down from a mating the Canon did with a UK dog Fieldtop Latest Edition (another Harlequin descendant) which has also produced a few cases of PPC. Otherwise PPC hasnt shown up in the working Irish dogs, which I suspect probably has something to do with them not having Harlequin (or very little Harlequin) in their pedigrees. In contrast the UK dogs have Harlequin as the bottleneck in their pedigrees, and he can occur 20 - 30 times in some UK pedigrees. Where PPC came from further back from Harlequin is difficult to guess. Have you any ideas?>>>>>>>>>>>
Margaret,
of course you are correct that no way of knowing if we did not have a few CLAD carriers in IRWS before the revival program ....and possibly the same for PPC and it being a dominate it only takes one dog...
If Harlequin is blamed, taking a close look at parents and grand parents ..........., be my move if I was to track a health issue.
Christina
Hello!
IRWS dog Chaersiveen Celtic Music, age 10 1/2 months, went into his first show today and finished best junior. He stacked perfectly but running he thought he was a kangaroo. Mrs Doppelreiter thinks he is a very fine dog that needs some ring training before the next show.
We are very proud of the young man.
There were 3 IRWS entered:
dogs:
Chaersiveen Celtic Music in Junior, Limelanes Bolero in Intermediate
and bitches: Limelanes Birdy in Intermediate,
Celt was Best Junior, Bolero CAC, CACIB, BOB and Birdy VG1.
Oberwart is always very difficult: middle of summer and extremely hot insdoors and outdoors.
If you want to see the photos:
http://picasaweb.google.at/arthurthedog1411
Silvia
I now have my new IRWS pup- Summer is her name and she is my first pedigree dog- I am going to be doing showing, flyball and obedience with her. I also have 3 x breeds.
hello i have just got a brand new puppy from granaghburn over in ireland and she is the cutest ever. I thank Raymond for this puppy Granaghburns Wild Flower Lady Lucy and for everything. She is a pleasure to have in the family. She is very active and lovable and gets lots of cuddles off of us kids. She is trained and still learning more each day. I love taking her walks and exploring with her and my other Setter Bruce and we all get along like best friends. Thank you for reading
I will say "Thank you too" Wendy...glad to be a part of it. I have gone to a few training days with Duncan..and last weekend I entered him in a club trial (Long Island Pointing Dog Club) (non-AKC) with AKC judges. He placed 4th out of 6 (3 braces), the Judge had some very positive things to say about him, so I was proud of my boy!
We proudly announce that on December 1 Sashi =Saoisse Red Nokomis whelped 9 healthy puppies: 6 dogs and 3 bitches.
Sire is Chaersiveen Celtic Music. All puppies weighed well over 400g.
Far away from 'silent night' at Lohmann's place, as our dear Funny (Deargban O'Faolain) gave birth to 12 strong pups on 19th of december;-)))
We are very happy to welcome seven boys and five girls and have lists with names beginning with letter B all over the living room.
Oh Fionnuala
what a wonderful comment , im so pleased you are happy with him, my two are hooligans lol and of course with still having their Mum at hand she is showing them lots of naughty new tricks i have to say merlin is the better of the two a laid back dog in all areas Bree is just like her Mum NAUGHTY i have started their show training and will be starting a general gundog training with them also take care and love and cuddles to Fergus from his bro and sis xx
Fionnuala
nice to find you here.
Let me pass on good luck wishes to Fergus from his Uncle Fergal. If your little one grows up to be like his uncle - Champion and Show Champion Dalriach Infamous Grouse - you will enjoy having him.
Fergal's picture is on my page
Video of Ed Flannelly's Craigrua Oscor running in pointer and setter in Moycullen on the beautiful west coast of Ireland in Co Galway. I took this video while holding one of Ed Flannelly's other dogs so sorry for any jumps in quality. www.youtube.com/user/granaghburn3?feature=mhw4
Very over excitedly just wanted to tell the whole world that after 2 years of thinking about breeding and researching, months of waiting for test results we have finally got all of our bitch - Royston Duchess' test results back and she is now in season! So fingers crossed if all goes well with Gallybob Gold Standard we should have some puppies for the summer :)
Christina, your babies look very nice, good luck with them.
Our puppies are nearly 9 weeks old now, and start to go off to their new homes this week. It will be very quiet here soon! I will miss them.
But will have my work cut out with the bitch we are keeping.Suzanne.
terry o leary
May 29, 2008
Pedro Completo PortoRioSetter
Hi all. Theres a new embassador of the breed in a new Contry,Brasil.Its "Sebastião do Porto Rio" ,Irws male with two months who travel yesterday to S.Paulo to live with a family who have already an Irish Red Setter.
Best Regards
Pedro Completo
www.portoriosetter.com
May 30, 2008
Christina Phillips
Which males are all related ???? Has anyone been over using ?
I agree, breeders have to be careful, but I would not say that we are in need of outcross, that should alwasy remain as very last resort...
A breed survives on the talents of breeders, not on the quick fix of outcrossing..... I think we had a person here in the USA [cousins] that tried to bypass the hard work and went for outcrossing, no..:-(
The breed has available genepool, but breeders must put aside their persoal issues and accept all pure bred IRWS as equal and make great use of what is available......With global access, semen can come from anywhere these days.......
May 30, 2008
terry o leary
May 31, 2008
Christina Phillips
I never questioned Irelands duty and commitment in preserving the breed and I was aware that way back when, it was done, breeding occasionally back to Irish Red Setters, did they ever make use of parti colored IS born and included them into the IRWS gene pool ?????
The last major outcross program brought CLAD and PPC, what sort of safe guards will be in place to avoid new issues that could be brought in.
How many IRWS on average are imported back to Ireland for breed diversity etc.....or has it been pretty much just local dogs.....
I will agree with you in that our breed diversity here could go fast when rankings go up and everyone wants to breed to the top dogs:-((
Some experts recommend to make use of as many dogs from a litter as possible [as long as they pass health clearances]................
Christina
May 31, 2008
Margaret Sierakowski
Yes, John Kerr in the UK bred red and whites from two red parents in at least three litters in the 1970's, Rushfield Great Lady, Rushfield Smudge I and Rushfield Jill were all red and whites with two red parents. The KC at that time still had a B register and John was able to register the red and white puppies as IRWS on the B register, they got full registration in 1979. This was perfectly legal . Terry can probably remember some more in Ireland.
"The last major outcross program brought CLAD and PPC, what sort of safe guards will be in place to avoid new issues that could be brought in.?"
Not sure what you mean by this? The last outcross programme started in 1989, after the CLAD litters had been born in the UK and CLAD was recognised in the breed. PPC was recognised in the breed in the UK in the early 90's. Ireland has not had any CLAD litters and PPC doesnt seem to be a problem there either. Presumably the genes for both had been around but only surfaced with close line breeding on too few dogs in the early years in the UK? Terry has already said that if there were another outcross programme any red dogs that would be used would be subject to all the same health checks as the IRWS, and the breeding stock in Ireland now has a pretty comprehensive screening programme
"How many IRWS on average are imported back to Ireland for breed diversity etc.....or has it been pretty much just local dogs....."
Jim Sheridan imported Rushfield dogs from John Kerr in Scotland, and has also imported from Holland. Isabel Somerfield exported IRWS from the UK to Ireland, David Byrne and Terry O'Leary have both owned Bawnrhus, and Terry imported a bitch from France, and I dont think its a secret that he is about to import another IRWS with some older and less usual breeding behind it . I have sent eight IRWS over to Ireland ,north and south, of whom three have been bred from, and Ann Miller (Mizen) from Co Cork came over to Scotland to use one of my dogs as a stud. I can think of three people from the UK who moved to Ireland to live with their IRWS and whose dogs have become part of the Irish gene pool .The McAleer's in Belfast have an Anjuli dog from Carol Pipe in Scotland. There is actually good awareness nowadays in Ireland of the need to make best use of the international gene pool beyond the national boundaries
Margaret
Jun 1, 2008
Christina Phillips
I wasn't really trying to point fingers in regards to CLAD, since it also is present in IS, I thought it was brought in from the revival days..
IS carry PRA and possibly Epi, besides many others, so how could IRWS specific test be of help? Unless of course Irish Red Setters in Ireland are lucky and are not afflicted....
Not sure if I can blame close breeding/line breed for all evils, don't matter how close or how far apart they are when you deal with dominate genes...and at times we should thank close breeding for all the life threatening issues that came about, otherwise we would be gambling with each breeding even with least related....
To get a better perspective, how many IRWS are in Ireland at the moment, ???
Christina
Jun 1, 2008
Margaret Sierakowski
Yes, we know now that CLAD is in red Irish Setters, but have you any evidence that it wasnt in the few red and whites before the revival in the seventies? The reds that were used in the revival had shared ancestry with the red and whites, thats why they were used
PPC was found in IRWS in the UK in the 1990s, but curiously I cant find any references to PPC in red Irish Setters? So why do you think it came into IRWS from the 1970's outcrosses
Very little PPC has been found in Irish bred dogs, compared with the UK stock. There is one line down from Snow King of Tormore , a son of Harlequin, which has a few cases of PPC, and another line down from a mating the Canon did with a UK dog Fieldtop Latest Edition (another Harlequin descendant) which has also produced a few cases of PPC. Otherwise PPC hasnt shown up in the working Irish dogs, which I suspect probably has something to do with them not having Harlequin (or very little Harlequin) in their pedigrees. In contrast the UK dogs have Harlequin as the bottleneck in their pedigrees, and he can occur 20 - 30 times in some UK pedigrees. Where PPC came from further back from Harlequin is difficult to guess. Have you any ideas?
Margaret
Jun 2, 2008
Margaret Sierakowski
Jun 2, 2008
Margaret Sierakowski
The IKC doesnt publish figures of registrations. For the IRWS bred in N.Ireland, some are registered in the UK, some in Ireland, which complicates things.
There could be around 500 IRWS in Ireland, maybe more, guessing from the number of known litters . Almost all of these are primarily working bred, and predominantly Craigrua/Rushfield breeding. Very few IRWS are shown in Ireland
The problem with importing from Europe is that the serious working dogs in Europe are also mostly from Craigrua/Rushfield breeding and a little Lougherne, so bringing them back doesnt bring in different lines
There are a few dogs in Sweden from older Irish breeding, and a few in Central Europe who are descendants of Rushfield Smudge.
And in Holland there are Gerard Mirck's red and whites, from Moanruad breeding through Harry
Jun 2, 2008
Christina Phillips
Very little PPC has been found in Irish bred dogs, compared with the UK stock. There is one line down from Snow King of Tormore , a son of Harlequin, which has a few cases of PPC, and another line down from a mating the Canon did with a UK dog Fieldtop Latest Edition (another Harlequin descendant) which has also produced a few cases of PPC. Otherwise PPC hasnt shown up in the working Irish dogs, which I suspect probably has something to do with them not having Harlequin (or very little Harlequin) in their pedigrees. In contrast the UK dogs have Harlequin as the bottleneck in their pedigrees, and he can occur 20 - 30 times in some UK pedigrees. Where PPC came from further back from Harlequin is difficult to guess. Have you any ideas?>>>>>>>>>>>
Margaret,
of course you are correct that no way of knowing if we did not have a few CLAD carriers in IRWS before the revival program ....and possibly the same for PPC and it being a dominate it only takes one dog...
If Harlequin is blamed, taking a close look at parents and grand parents ..........., be my move if I was to track a health issue.
Christina
Jun 2, 2008
Christina Phillips
Christina
Jun 2, 2008
Silvia Lindner-Rae
IRWS dog Chaersiveen Celtic Music, age 10 1/2 months, went into his first show today and finished best junior. He stacked perfectly but running he thought he was a kangaroo. Mrs Doppelreiter thinks he is a very fine dog that needs some ring training before the next show.
We are very proud of the young man.
There were 3 IRWS entered:
dogs:
Chaersiveen Celtic Music in Junior, Limelanes Bolero in Intermediate
and bitches: Limelanes Birdy in Intermediate,
Celt was Best Junior, Bolero CAC, CACIB, BOB and Birdy VG1.
Oberwart is always very difficult: middle of summer and extremely hot insdoors and outdoors.
If you want to see the photos:
http://picasaweb.google.at/arthurthedog1411
Silvia
Jul 20, 2008
Fiorella Mathis
Jul 28, 2008
Susan Stone
Aug 11, 2008
Peri
Aug 27, 2008
Chris Knight
Sep 26, 2008
Rhona, Bruce n Lil Lucy Skene x
Dec 19, 2008
Rhona, Bruce n Lil Lucy Skene x
Dec 29, 2008
Carol Gill
thanks for the invite
best wish's Carol G
May 11, 2009
Harvey Hazen
May 11, 2009
Maggie Skene
May 11, 2009
Wendy Bockman
May 12, 2009
Margaret Mazan
Oct 24, 2009
Silvia Lindner-Rae
Sashi on her way into the North Sea near Banff/Scotland
Celt pretending to be a good boy...Nov 8, 2009
Carol Gill
Nov 8, 2009
alexandra bichler
more info on my website at "Greenmore`s Special"
alex
www.simbic.at
www.simbic.eu
Nov 27, 2009
Silvia Lindner-Rae
We proudly announce that on December 1 Sashi =Saoisse Red Nokomis whelped 9 healthy puppies: 6 dogs and 3 bitches.
Sire is Chaersiveen Celtic Music. All puppies weighed well over 400g.
Dec 4, 2009
Cathy Forster
Well done !!!
Dec 4, 2009
Christiane Lohmann
Far away from 'silent night' at Lohmann's place, as our dear Funny (Deargban O'Faolain) gave birth to 12 strong pups on 19th of december;-)))
We are very happy to welcome seven boys and five girls and have lists with names beginning with letter B all over the living room.
Dec 23, 2009
alexandra bichler
28th of december
3 boys and 4 girls
Exclusive`s All for Me X Greenmore`s Special Fiona Jessie!
Litter information: www.greenmore.at
regards
alex
www.simbic.at
Dec 29, 2009
Carol Gill
Dec 29, 2009
Silvia Lindner-Rae
Last night after a good meal!Dec 29, 2009
Silvia Lindner-Rae
Reddeer Every Breath You Take 'Eddy'
Jan 29, 2010
Raymond Monroe
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX_sIHqMTsY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIQeqIpRKMU
Jan 29, 2010
Suzanne Humphries
Suzanne.
Feb 2, 2010
Carol Gill
what a wonderful comment , im so pleased you are happy with him, my two are hooligans lol and of course with still having their Mum at hand she is showing them lots of naughty new tricks i have to say merlin is the better of the two a laid back dog in all areas Bree is just like her Mum NAUGHTY i have started their show training and will be starting a general gundog training with them also take care and love and cuddles to Fergus from his bro and sis xx
Feb 13, 2010
Ossian
nice to find you here.
Let me pass on good luck wishes to Fergus from his Uncle Fergal. If your little one grows up to be like his uncle - Champion and Show Champion Dalriach Infamous Grouse - you will enjoy having him.
Fergal's picture is on my page
Feb 13, 2010
Manette Jones
Feb 14, 2010
Raymond Monroe
www.youtube.com/user/granaghburn3?feature=mhw4
Mar 7, 2010
Ossian
Mar 7, 2010
Carol Gill
Mar 8, 2010
Ossian
Mar 9, 2010
Ossian
Mar 10, 2010
Carol Gill
Mar 27, 2010
Thomas&Merete-Kennel Alvertoppen
Mar 30, 2010
Susie Warren
Apr 26, 2010
Christina Phillips
Jun 29, 2010
Suzanne Humphries
Our puppies are nearly 9 weeks old now, and start to go off to their new homes this week. It will be very quiet here soon! I will miss them.
But will have my work cut out with the bitch we are keeping.Suzanne.
Jun 30, 2010
Silvia Lindner-Rae
Jun 30, 2010