Great news Dutch FCI score of Coppers Prat Bubbla back as AA!!!

[Camilla Ostman]

I ´m over the moon as he has been scored a BC in Sweden but then Holland a year later AA. Funny thing that finally all 10 in the litters are scored and clear, or rather we are waiting for Champagne Bubbles score from England, Xray looked just fine but still waiting for result.So this means all scored in the litter and all AA AB or BB so couldnt be happier. On the other hand makes you wonder what is wrong with the system, which country /system to believe.
My dream is that all dogs should be read down in Brussel , or where ever and done by the same panel, lets say one panel for gundogs, one for working group ..so on.
At least we would all have the same chance of having the scores done the same way.
I will never ever understand anything really .Knowing that English scores of 0-3 has beed read C in Sweden whilst 5-8 has been read A in another country makes you wonder..or..What are we to believe and wouldnt the most important thing be that we as breeders worked to get as many in every litter scored wether breed from or not.
I can see no other way of maybee finding a way of getting better hips for the future.
If I understand most countrys and breeders just concentrate on the ones being breed from, well doesnt really say much does it?
My point of wiev and opens for big discussions as usual;=))
Anyway just happy now;=)) Pictures showing baby Ibsen , young Ibsen and a bit older Ibsen;=)) And to end rumors going around, no I havnt sold him, he is vey much my dog!!!

[JOANNE]

Congratulations Camilla superb results for the lovely Ibsen. Just returned from the South Island and the shows in Christchurch, Eamonn travelled like a true pro seems to enjoy the plane, more than I do :). Will e mail the photos of little man taken at the weekend. Love from the NZ relatives. JO.XXX

[Diana van der Valk]

I don't mind keeping him ;-))) Ibsen is a joy to have around and just settled in with the rest of our gang (4 dogs and 6 bitches). He loves to play and run free with the others. But surely will miss his mum aswell a bit ;-)

[eva ciechonska]

I have a little question to throw into the debate. Why does a dog with a good hip score - much lower than the mean score, move unsoundly, with no rear extension while another dog with a high hip score - almost four times the mean score, move soundly, with great rear extension and no sign of this high a degree of dysplasia. I have judged both and placed the later very highly. Interesting Silke that a genetic marker has been established for GSDs in Germany, lets hope the gundogs are not far behind. We all know breeders who have had the unpleasant experience of breeding only from dogs with low scores for many generations suddenly producing a litter with bad hips. Where does that one come from???? Anyway, we must not obsess about any one thing to the exclusion of everything else and remember that we do not apply the same criteria to ourselves that we do to our dogs - shame because there are many of us walking about with bad hips - me included.

[Gillian Sterritt]

Congratulations on your boy's great hipscore, I have just have the hipscore back for my 6 year old, Kealey, as 4:6 (UK )which I am really pleased about. When I try to research the pedigrees of dogs which I may consider to use on her I am lucky if both of the sires parents have been scored! As someone new to the breed is hip scoring in Irish setters in the UK only a recent development? How do I decide what dog, if any, to use if I can't trace hipscores in the pedigree? Just because a dog has a low hip score doesn't mean that all the dogs within its pedigree have good hips. If there is a dog which had hip dysplasia somewhere within the pedigree then surely this could develop in litters years later. Surely the chance of this happening could be increased if the said dog appears a number of times within the pedigree even if it is generations back? I have heard of English Setters with really low hip scores yet litter brothers and sisters have scores within the 40's. It seems impossible to carry out comprehensive research into the matter when I can't trace the hip scores of dogs which feature in most pedigrees.Is a low hip scorce more to do with luck if it varies so much within litter mates? And is a low hip score always a sign of good driving back movement?

[Camilla Ostman]

Maybee someone start a new blogg about hipscores , please, me at work havnt got the time really!

[Camilla Ostman]

Susan where can you get a reliable comparision between countries and scores?
I started asking this question as it to me seems no country does what the other does.I seen different sheets comparing but that is just papers and not reality.15 for UK doesnt say much as long as it is just to few scored so far...
I do not think that the average dog in UK has bad hips.But I would for sure be happy if UK breeders did start scoring more and more and more and also encourige the puppybyers to score.But then again this goes for more countries!!

An other way of looking at this is , what is a bad hip?? Meaning something on paper or does papers always tell you the facts?? Of course there are really bad hips like E hips and I do know far to many cases of really young dogs having to be put down as being in far to much pain.
But all the pet setters never scored never having a problem??How about their hips??

[Marta Galuszka]

Great news Camilla!
Really happy for you:)

[Susan Stone]

Camilla, it is not a matter of blame, it is a statement of facts: if we want to breed from english lines and the english breed mean score is 15 (and even that is open to discussion), then how can we expect to get a better average score than the country we are basing our breeding on?
The way forward is to lower the breed average - and unfortunately that does not seem to be happening.

[Camilla Ostman]

Ladies, do not think we should blame UK for bad hips really.We have had many imports throwing good hips over a long period here in Sweden but also bad experience.My very personal point of wiev is you have to look for more than just the score of the 2 animals you breed from..heres back to having more individuals scored!
UK well average 15 would be ??We really do not know do we?? But for sure there are lines that throw better hips than othere, vice versa.And as always hips is NOT evrything!

[Catherine Carter]

Susan
I think the UK mean score could prove to be much higher if all breeders took the trouble to hip score all their breeding stocks.......