Ethics for studdogs? - Exclusively Setters2024-03-28T12:40:47Zhttps://irishsetters.ning.com/forum/topics/ethics-for-studdogs?commentId=865021%3AComment%3A143481&feed=yes&xn_auth=noRemember the old days when ad…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-02-02:865021:Comment:1434812009-02-02T09:06:39.738ZDee Rancehttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/DeeRance
Remember the old days when adverts were in the papers for stud dogs, they always said ''TO APPROVED BITCHES ONLY'' this is how it should be, I like you, don't like to think of puppies being born in kennels, I think that they should be in the house, (what is the point of having a dog if it doesn't live with you in the home) these dogs may have started their evolvement as working gun dogs, but now, in the main they are companion dogs, and companions stay with you.....It is a good criteria 'if you…
Remember the old days when adverts were in the papers for stud dogs, they always said ''TO APPROVED BITCHES ONLY'' this is how it should be, I like you, don't like to think of puppies being born in kennels, I think that they should be in the house, (what is the point of having a dog if it doesn't live with you in the home) these dogs may have started their evolvement as working gun dogs, but now, in the main they are companion dogs, and companions stay with you.....It is a good criteria 'if you wouldn't sell a puppy to them' not to let them have a lot of YOUR puppies, it is a shame that more stud dog owners don't feel like that, and the dog is (as I have said before) not just a money cow....and yes Susan that is called ETHICS, it seems to be a dirty word in our days Bit of a late comer to this d…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-02-02:865021:Comment:1434012009-02-02T02:49:49.227ZGayle Sheridanhttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/GayleSheridan
Bit of a late comer to this discussion!<br />
I have historically severely restricted the use of my dogs because I have not been happy about the environment of breeders (eg kennel dogs vs house dogs) and breeders not being very selective with prospective homes. Basically if I would not be happy selling a puppy to a breeder I would not let them use my dogs. As I am only one of two breeders in NZ who has maintained straight English lines I have been told I am selfish not letting my dogs be used at open…
Bit of a late comer to this discussion!<br />
I have historically severely restricted the use of my dogs because I have not been happy about the environment of breeders (eg kennel dogs vs house dogs) and breeders not being very selective with prospective homes. Basically if I would not be happy selling a puppy to a breeder I would not let them use my dogs. As I am only one of two breeders in NZ who has maintained straight English lines I have been told I am selfish not letting my dogs be used at open stud. I think the comment that a breeder will 'just find another dog' is a cop out.<br />
I have had a similar situation with not breeding litters - it is very hard to find what I see as good homes in NZ and I have had my fingers burnt when sending puppies to Australia. Both my beautiful English imported bitches only had one litter each and several of my other beautiful Champion bitches never had litters for the same reason. Quite right Dee, ignorence IS…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-01-30:865021:Comment:1422512009-01-30T15:23:13.586Zursula wilbyhttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/mossby188
Quite right Dee, ignorence <b>IS</b> bliss!<br />
When I bought my first setter in 1975, I asked about hips (having had german shephards before) and was told that setters had no problem whatsoever.<br />
When we started X-raying setters in Sweden and found that all was not as bright as we may have thought, the hunting side insisted that the problem was only on the larger "show"-side.<br />
Until they themselves started X-raying.<br />
<br />
Trouble with hips is that unless you do X-ray, you may not know. Some dogs can live…
Quite right Dee, ignorence <b>IS</b> bliss!<br />
When I bought my first setter in 1975, I asked about hips (having had german shephards before) and was told that setters had no problem whatsoever.<br />
When we started X-raying setters in Sweden and found that all was not as bright as we may have thought, the hunting side insisted that the problem was only on the larger "show"-side.<br />
Until they themselves started X-raying.<br />
<br />
Trouble with hips is that unless you do X-ray, you may not know. Some dogs can live a full and long life with pretty bad hips, others have to be put down at an early age.<br />
<br />
What are these endorsements you are talking about? Although if you look at the h…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-01-30:865021:Comment:1422452009-01-30T15:02:04.296ZDee Rancehttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/DeeRance
Although if you look at the hip scores of UK setters, just because one has got 'bad' hips doesn't necessarily mean that the offspring or their siblings will have bad hips, it is just if they pass these things on, and yes sometimes ignorance may well be bliss!!!<br />
All that said it is something that a brood bitch owner or a stud dog owner should be aware of what the other dog has or has not got wrong with it.<br />
Some of the endorsements that are put on pedigrees now are horrendous, and that is another…
Although if you look at the hip scores of UK setters, just because one has got 'bad' hips doesn't necessarily mean that the offspring or their siblings will have bad hips, it is just if they pass these things on, and yes sometimes ignorance may well be bliss!!!<br />
All that said it is something that a brood bitch owner or a stud dog owner should be aware of what the other dog has or has not got wrong with it.<br />
Some of the endorsements that are put on pedigrees now are horrendous, and that is another Forum...... OK the, I will correct myself…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-01-30:865021:Comment:1421932009-01-30T11:22:21.409Zursula wilbyhttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/mossby188
OK the, I will correct myself.<br />
<br />
Having studied the breedpolicies of the Swedish Kennelclub, it does say that <b>IF</b> you use a C-dog in breeding, the offspring will be registered BUT with a <b>Not for breeding</b>-addition that can never be altered.<br />
Not much point then is there?
OK the, I will correct myself.<br />
<br />
Having studied the breedpolicies of the Swedish Kennelclub, it does say that <b>IF</b> you use a C-dog in breeding, the offspring will be registered BUT with a <b>Not for breeding</b>-addition that can never be altered.<br />
Not much point then is there? Well put. Although I like sho…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-01-30:865021:Comment:1421882009-01-30T11:06:32.222ZDee Rancehttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/DeeRance
Well put. Although I like showing I would probably be much better off (financially) if I didn't go to shows, although this year is going to be good, there aren't many shows that We can attend, it all depends about the judges....<br />
There is a social side to showing, you can make good friends, but for old fogies like me (that are now away from their farms and sitting around doing nothing, except looking after their grandchildren every day) I have to fill in the time (what little I still have) with…
Well put. Although I like showing I would probably be much better off (financially) if I didn't go to shows, although this year is going to be good, there aren't many shows that We can attend, it all depends about the judges....<br />
There is a social side to showing, you can make good friends, but for old fogies like me (that are now away from their farms and sitting around doing nothing, except looking after their grandchildren every day) I have to fill in the time (what little I still have) with something that takes all my money, and runs up 1,000's of miles on my car....some might say ''get a life'' and perhaps I would agree with them, when it is put like that......:D))) "Just so that I feel I have d…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-01-30:865021:Comment:1421872009-01-30T11:06:29.293ZJohanna Blacklakehttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/GottaGo
"Just so that I feel I have done that bit as well and that my dogs actually confirm to the standard."<br />
<br />
I think that's a good reason to enter to a show. :-)) But to me shows are just about the looks, it is not a place to judge how healthy or not the dog is. Other than by the looks, what is seen from the contruction etc. (not something that is inside the dog, or in the genes), obviously.
"Just so that I feel I have done that bit as well and that my dogs actually confirm to the standard."<br />
<br />
I think that's a good reason to enter to a show. :-)) But to me shows are just about the looks, it is not a place to judge how healthy or not the dog is. Other than by the looks, what is seen from the contruction etc. (not something that is inside the dog, or in the genes), obviously. Johanna, I am a "non-show-per…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-01-30:865021:Comment:1421852009-01-30T10:53:08.494Zursula wilbyhttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/mossby188
Johanna, I am a "non-show-person", meaning that shows bore me and a whole day spent at one, just means a wasted day to me.<br />
A day I would rather spend doing other things.<br />
But I <b>do</b> show my bitches (as little as I can get away with) and also encurage my puppy-buyers to show at least a few times.<br />
Just so that I feel I have done that bit as well and that my dogs actually confirm to the standard.<br />
I find it hard to believe I can be the only one.<br />
<br />
But I agree totally that shows are compertitions…
Johanna, I am a "non-show-person", meaning that shows bore me and a whole day spent at one, just means a wasted day to me.<br />
A day I would rather spend doing other things.<br />
But I <b>do</b> show my bitches (as little as I can get away with) and also encurage my puppy-buyers to show at least a few times.<br />
Just so that I feel I have done that bit as well and that my dogs actually confirm to the standard.<br />
I find it hard to believe I can be the only one.<br />
<br />
But I agree totally that shows are compertitions in their own right and fun for those that like them! :-) I cannot see any reason why o…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-01-30:865021:Comment:1421772009-01-30T10:22:08.664ZJohanna Blacklakehttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/GottaGo
I cannot see any reason why one should NOT show a dog with bad hips or anything else that excludes the dog from breeding. Shows are JUST a hobby these days. Nothing to do with breeding really... Not even nearly every dog that is entered to a show are ever used in breeding. And that's the way it should be.<br />
<br />
(Nothing to do... ok, the marketing point taken!)
I cannot see any reason why one should NOT show a dog with bad hips or anything else that excludes the dog from breeding. Shows are JUST a hobby these days. Nothing to do with breeding really... Not even nearly every dog that is entered to a show are ever used in breeding. And that's the way it should be.<br />
<br />
(Nothing to do... ok, the marketing point taken!) I agree with you Ursula,
I tr…tag:irishsetters.ning.com,2009-01-30:865021:Comment:1421642009-01-30T10:05:26.671ZDee Rancehttps://irishsetters.ning.com/profile/DeeRance
I agree with you Ursula,<br />
I travel with a friend that has a Sh Ch and he is a CLAD carrier, he also has a very bad hip score, I have actually judged this dog, (his movement is as sound as a bell), no sine of bad hips, (sometimes I think that a bad radiographer can cause many problems) and in the UK you cannot re-enter hip plates for further scrutiny, so you are stuck with them.<br />
His owners just love showing him, one thing that I do admire them for, is that although in UK he could have been used…
I agree with you Ursula,<br />
I travel with a friend that has a Sh Ch and he is a CLAD carrier, he also has a very bad hip score, I have actually judged this dog, (his movement is as sound as a bell), no sine of bad hips, (sometimes I think that a bad radiographer can cause many problems) and in the UK you cannot re-enter hip plates for further scrutiny, so you are stuck with them.<br />
His owners just love showing him, one thing that I do admire them for, is that although in UK he could have been used at stud, they always refused, many people would have used him if he were available, now of cause his progeny could not be registered. but someone with ethics it is so nice to see...<br />
How would you feel if you had a lovely looking animal and it was banned from the show ring because of something that you had no control over at the time, (this dog is almost 7 now) he was born at the hight of the CLAD problem, (when it was found) but a lovely dog all the same....