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Hi all,

we read with sadness the news that the English setter is facing extinction (234 new puppies registered in the kennel club last year).. Does anybody knows what is the situation for IS and Gordon setters (i.e. how many puppies are typically registered in the KC in these years)?

I am just wondering for personal curiosity, since we dont see many of these wonderful dogs around.. :(

best, silvia

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The common sense approach is to be applauded:-))


From the point of view that the first priority is to keep the breed alive as a functional working dog  of traditional Irish type, the Irish Kennel Club and the breed club in Ireland , are getting it right. And having since the 1970s been more interested in breeding good working dogs who could compete successfully in field trials  than in health testing, they are now coming round to accepting that some health testing is necessary to ensure that the working dogs at least have good hips, clear eyes  and are CLAD free. It is looking like testing for rcd4 will be added to the health requirements Any dogs used in the outcross breeding programme , red or red and white, have to meet health testing requirements  as well as having good working ability and breed type. The fact that the requirements are pretty stringent has meant that that getting approval from the IKC's has been slower than anticipated , slower than the last permitted outcross twenty years ago . Last time it was easier to get approval for a mating, but harder to carry through the outcross to four generations. This time its more difficult to get the approval for the mating , so only the best dogs will be used, but will be quicker to get full registration and an export pedigree. I think this is a better approach

Health tests, working ability, breed type, good temperaments - not an easy task for those looking for the ideal candidate. I will be interested to hear when the planned outcross(es) go ahead and hope information will be available.

So ! and during this time, there is a litter in France, presented on the Red Club's HP with red and red & whites puppies issued from 2 red parents, who are going to receive ALL a Pedigree, some from the red book, some from the RW book, with the blessing from the SCC. Do you find it normal ????

See the link : http://redclub-france.com/chiots.aspx


And I see that there are NO HD and CLAD tests, no more PRA RCD4 tests because our club don't know him !!!

Ossian        (This reply should have been on the previous page)

A Labradoodle is not a mongrel.

It is a cross between two pedigree dogs therefore is classed as a cross breed.

A 'mongrel' is the result of a mating between two dogs with unknown parentage (mongrel x mongrel or mongrel x unknown cross)

Perhaps most of "these poor beleaguered folks" as you call them are well aware that their 'designer dog' is a cross and are very happy with them.  

The people I know who own them are well aware of the fact.

Clarissa Baldwin CEO Dogs Trust "they may be a designer dog when you pay a fortune for them but when they are dumped at the gate of one of my rehoming centres they are mongrels"

Hi Ossian

Fact is, very few Labradoodles get dumped at rescue centres in the United Kingdom. Did Clarissa Baldwin CEO Dogs Trust invent the word "Mongrel" and was she responsible for the definition of the word? Did she study or has she got any qualifications in the English language? When any dog is dumped at any of her re-homing centres she could call them pigs if she wants, but her definition is wrong.

The definition of a mongrel is different to the definition of a crossbreed.


Dont take me on witrh rehoming stats Andy your breed is rehomed in proportion to the number born and they have a rescue function already although it is a young product

Hi Ossian

As I said, very few get dumped at re-homing centres and as you said, in proportion to the  number born. We will always have rescue centres for most pedigree, mongrel or crossbred dogs. As for stats, figures can lie and liars can figure!

Statistics can be presented to support or condemn both sides of the discussion.


Cathy when you meet a poor "beleagered" woman who has shelled out £1500 for a male labdoodle and another £500 for a bitch labdoodle and is delighted because she too is going to breed them (and make money) I get the disticnt impression when she has her first litter she aint going to be happy and I imagine the best she could do was sell her litter of mongrels?

Hi Ossian

Although I partly agree with what you say, I must put you straight on the word "Mongrel".

A mongrel pup is the result of two mixed breeds mating.

A cross breed is the result of two pedigree dogs of different breeds mating.

We bought our so called designer dog because we like it and would have bought it whatever it was called. We paid a small amount for our one and she is a great dog.





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