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Hi all,

we read with sadness the news that the English setter is facing extinction (234 new puppies registered in the kennel club last year).. Does anybody knows what is the situation for IS and Gordon setters (i.e. how many puppies are typically registered in the KC in these years)?

I am just wondering for personal curiosity, since we dont see many of these wonderful dogs around.. :(

best, silvia

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I don't agree Sue

Labrador x Poodle = known parentage =  offspring are cross bred

I agree Sue, each to their own.

All that matters in the end is that the dog is loved and cared for.

Hi Sue

Yes, I have seen the pictures on FB. I love all animals whatever you wish to call them.

We are so proud of Cassie whatever you may call her. Any animal that we take in, is treated exactly the same, they have forever homes and get plenty of love. Riley has a good pedigree and obviously Cassie has no pedigree, but they are equal.

Fact is, she is classed as a crossbreed as both parents are KC registered pedigree dogs. I would have also said she was a mongrel, but I now know the correct definition of the word mongrel.

By definition, she is classed as a crossbreed. (Not that it makes any difference to me or her!).

Although you say a crossbred = a mongrel, you are wrong. You could call a dog a cat if you wish, but that would also be wrong of you.

I must say Torie is right and you are wrong.



Hi Sue

I agree that it makes no difference what you call her.

If someone tells you that they have a mongrel, you have no idea what it will look like.

If they tell you they have a crossbreed (Labrador x Poodle), you should have more idea what it may look like.

I do respect your opinion even though you are 100% totally wrong with your interpretation of the word mongrel. With crossbreeds you often get two very much the same, but with mongrels the chances are less. All of Cassie's litter mates looked exactly the same. You could not tell them apart.


Sorry Andy "cross breed" is like "first cross" its a term they came up with to sell a dog which has

np acceopted pedigree. Funny thing is its like the KC "working register"

The dog is not a full pedigree but you can still register with the KC - its about fashion and until owners acceopt the nomiker mongrel we are destined to see an ever increasing number of crosses

Andy - I will give you "lab poodle"the cross was thought through. These are both gundogs originally, water retrievers. easy going, working dogs. the innovator of the cross saw them as a dog useful in the assisrance field almost entirely becuase the cross did not moult. Fine!

Now tell me what use is a Malrish? Englese?Malweiler? Boxdon?

All of them crossed for cross sake and because somone thought it was a great money spinner

Hi Ossian

The Labradoodle, a mix between a Labrador and a standard poodle, was originally bred for a woman who needed a non-allergenic guide dog.

It was about 22 years ago when Wally Conron produced the first Labradoodle.

I must also add, he does regret it now due to the designer dog label.

I know nothing about other crossbreeds and I am not qualified to comment on them.

To be honest, any dog that is kept as a pet has little use.


Hi Sue

I would never belittle pet dogs and please forgive me if that is how it came across. Every home should have one or two or more of them.

I think that in some (if not most) cases an Irish setter will increase your blood pressure! As for friends, he has more than me as I only have one friend.



Hi Sue

When a dog finds its way into a re-homing centre the staff do the best they can to describe it, sometimes they are right and sometimes wrong. If it looks a bit setterish and a bit corgi-ish, that's how they would advertise it. A setter that is a poor specimen may or may not be a true setter, but I do mostly agree with you on that. No comment on 30 years ago, but these days a poodle x Labrador is called a Labradoodle and is classed as a crossbreed, not a mongrel.

As I stated before, we did lots of research on Labradoodles before we bought Cassie. We did not pay a fortune for her, but even if we had she would have been worth it. Everyone says they cost too much money, but how about kittens. At one time you would struggle to find free homes for them and now you have to buy them. Changing times.

Cassie is still very young, but she is such a good dog, so agile and easy to train. We are so pleased that we have her. She is the perfect mate for Riley (our setter).

I find it difficult to believe that some people have trouble understanding that two pedigree dogs of different breeds will produce crossbreed pups and not mongrels.


Its like the canine version of political correctness

We went from "nigger" to "black" to "coloured" and even "ethnic origin" and now its offensive to use the original terms. Seems that people associate the term mongrel with something really "low" when in fact it is a term of reference.

Sorry Sue, as long as there are Andys who defend the unnecessary crossing of dogs that can not repeoduce themselves in further matings, the deigner craze will continue


Hi Sue

I can honestly say I have no problem with the word mongrel. My last dog (Wilma) was a mongrel and possibly the best dog I have ever owned. She lived to be 15.5 years old and was a very healthy dog, very easy to train, good with children and only had an ear infection when she was young.

I do have a problem with people that do not understand the definition of a word they use so often.

Even if you have worked with dogs for a hundred years, the definition of mongrel is different to crossbreed, like it or not.

I am proud to own a dog that is classed as a crossbreed and I was proud to own my mongrel. My point is really nothing to do with the dog, but the English language as it stands today.


Well, in New Zealand the English Setter is almost a dying breed, along with the Gordon, with the Irish not that far behind..

Year ending 2010 - ES - 4 litters (one of them mine) - 11 puppies registered (2 mine)

                            IS -  8 litters - 52 puppies registered

                            GS - 3 litters - 11 puppies registered.

We are, as someone once said, going up the proverbial creek without a paddle, or down the gurgler - take your pick.

How do you manage  breeding in New Zealand with very small numbers? Are your setters becoming very inbred or are your breeders making the effort to keep on importing new dogs? The cost of importing, other than from Australia,  must be horrendous for New Zealand




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