whistle training for recall - scientific explainations

[Louise Perry]

Help!!! For those of you with the knowledge, i wonder if you could help me?

 

when whistle training for recall, is Classical conditioning firstly used to establish association between whistle and food. Then operant conditioning used secondary ie, positive reinforcement etc? trying to research my first uni assignment and getting a bit confused!

[Louise Perry]

Thanks Sue. Thats what i thought too but got a bit iffy over the last bit like u said about the whistle is already being used when dog is already recalling. But i use the whistle to recall him  so u can see where it all goes a bit fuzzy. so is the whistle still the C.C and only the food is O.P. gosh confused myself again! haha

 

[Fran Griffin]

Hi if you are really into learning, then please move on from the old pavlovian and operant conditioning theories.  This is like comparing a modern day digital movie with a Charlie Chaplin movie. Unfortunately, the dog world is soundly locked in this old paradigm and steadfastly refuses to look at modern day knowledge as to how learning occurs, to the extent that the dog world have become a bunch of flat earth luddites. Try researching neuro networking just for starters.  It really and truly isn't as simple as the old theories suggest, and theories are precisely what they are.  When I did my degree in cognitive psychology I almost choked and gave up when I realised where current knowledge was heading, and it became a massive shock to me.  However, when I got my head around it, I actually obtained my highest grades in cognition (learning processes).  It is a fascinating area which is still at the cutting edge of science, and new information is coming through by the day. Already, what I learned in my degree 5 years ago, is well outdated !

[Louise Perry]

Fran, yes I agree that there is so much to be said for outdated theories and with most science subjects it is constantly moving at a very fast pace. I will look at neuro networking in the future but for the purpose of this particular assignment i have to base it on the traditional theories and I just need some clarification. This is my first assignment and I am suffering with writers block and I think a bit anxious especially as i am trying to get my head around all the animal biology, Anatomy and physiology and general animal behaviour knowledge. And i seem to be stuggling to find research on whistle training in its own entity.

What is your take on whistle training for recall purposes in relation to the traditional theorists perspectives?

Any pointers greatly received.

[Fran Griffin]

In old money Louise, Pavlovian. What you have stated is very much along the lines of how the conditioning and response is achieved.  However, if I was doing one of these assignments I really would be tempted to add in the conclusion "of course, these are very outdated theories, and the understanding of neural processing has advanced tremendously since Pavlov" and then back up this statement with a couple of references.  You are allowed to do that, providing you can reference such. Having marked papers it can make you sit up and  think, and such comments do get passed back to the course team - that's if the person marking can be bothered.

[Louise Perry]

Ah ha Fran I have already added something like what you said in my mind map conclusion space as i had a sneaky quick look at neuro networking etc .And also made it clear in my intro that I acknowledged science had moved on etc but was discussing the traditional theories in this instance etc, etc. So thank you. I suspose its a bit like Freudian theorists still refusing to believe anything else and that is extreme! And yes I have noticed already that my textbooks refer to many other animals but less on companion animal research, which is why I am struggling to find anything in books but having to look at online journals. Crazy!

[Fran Griffin]

Yes, that's what worries me Sue, most of the behaviour courses are teaching very outdated info. As I said, the dog world is stuck in the dark ages and refuse to advance. They say its because there is no research in dogs, only rats, cats, mice, primates, humans, birds, anything but dog - but of course, dogs brains process information ..... in a different way..... because it is easier that way unfortunately.

[Ossian]

True Sue but I think tht in many cases the trainers on the ground are developing daster than the theory. You are all ight!

[Louise Perry]

Funny enough Fin, i came across the joe irving book on google scholar and did take some info - thank you. I have at least started now, which is a relief and am sat in bed with laptop now (but needed a break form it) , lol. Stinking out - reuben does that to us all the time and he didnt get trained too. In fact the Lizard sems to have learned this too. Reptile Poo stinks!! seriously tho, if I come across it I will let you know what it is about.

[Louise Perry]

Thanku everyone for your help and just to say I must got a good mark for my assignment, so it was the understanding and evaluating old theories that was of importance in the end. Now on to the next one , lol

[Ann Millington]

I just throw this observation in regarding recall training.

I used to whistle recall when putting baby puppy food down and progressed to food reward as the puppy became older. But the main reward for returning to me on call or whistle or hand signal was that returning was the nicest place to be  for praise, caress, happy atmosphere etc - and food sometimes.  It was more about the bond between dog and owner, a desire to please on the part of the dog and an appreciation of its effort on the part of the owner.  It works but you have to put in systematic training to get there.

Well done on your assignment, Louise. ;o])