Home for Irish Setter Lovers Around the World
Seems like there has been a lot of discussion - to me directly and on the site - on the recent removal of a certain member. Wanted to provide some context:
- This member was warned multiple times and had multiple complaints from multiple members over several weeks. They will not be invited back. There are no plans to invite any previously removed members back, either.
- I really don't care how knowledgeable someone is (there are tons of knowledgeable members still here). If they are a rude to other members, they are gone, like a cancer that needs removal. Not sure this is a lot different than any other Internet site. I frequent several discussion forums and when people post things that are inappropriate or rude or vulgar, the content and/or member are removed. Seems pretty simple to me.
- Moderation is tough, especially on a site I no longer use because people were rude to me when it started. If we don't moderate, trolls run off members. If we 'over moderate', then people leave because they can't have passionate discussion. People are going to leave either way. It's like death and taxes.
- With a site of this size, there is no earthly way you can please everyone. I remember being in a leadership position in college and noticed with a group of just 30 people, every single decision I made disappointed or upset someone...without fail. This site has almost 2,200 members. Whenever a choice is made to leave or remove someone, people will be upset.
- People who 'threaten' to leave like the site like they are some critical contributor whose departure will crater the site...please let me know if you have any problems doing so and I would be more than happy to help you! :-)
David McIlveen Wright had a great suggestion a while back that I think we need to consider - a Code of Conduct. Here's the example David provided. This is NOT an official Ning or Exclusively Setters Code of Conduct, but it has a lot of positives:
By using this Forum you agree to the following terms:
• No hostility. All discussions must be friendly and civil.
• No posts or pm's attacking other members. Teasing or jesting between forum friends is fine, but it must be in an obviously friendly manner with a smiley to make it clear you are joking. If it is clearly hostile or between people who clearly dislike each other then it will be considered an attack. If someone complains about being teased then both sides must stop immediately.
• No sectarianism. This means not posting anything that praises or criticises any prominent group (or person) on either side of the sectarian divide.
• No threats of physical violence.
• No inflammatory posts. No controversial, offensive or otherwise disruptive posts which are likely to provoke others into a hostile argument.
• No racism.
• No lying.
• No posts of an 'adult' nature.
• No swearing. Don't 'hide' swearing by replacing certain letters with others or inserting spaces.
• No spamming. Do not post or send unsolicited pm's advertising something or promoting another website without the permission of the administrator.
• No defamatory posts.
• No copyrighted material. Do not post or upload any material protected by copyright without the permission of the owner of the copyright. You shall be solely liable for any damage resulting from any such infringement of copyright.
• No more than one membership per person. Do not register or use more than one username per user. People from the same household sharing the same internet connection will need to disclose their relationship to the forum.
• No mod-bashing. Do not question, mock, criticise or complain about moderators or their decisions on the boards. The moderators will happily discuss individual decisions at length by PM only and if there has been misunderstanding then posts can be undeleted and restored to the forum.
• Do not publish any personal information about another member (eg real name, address, email address) unless they have stated they are happy for it to be posted. Please respect the privacy of other members. Do not publish an email or pm that someone has sent you privately.
Posts that break the above rules will be deleted. For blatant or persistent offences a number of warnings will be given before issuing a ban. The number of warnings issued will depend on the seriousness of the incident(s) as deemed by the moderators. In some cases no warnings may be issued at all before banning.
The moderators reserve the right to delete any content they regard as inappropriate. When posts are deleted an explanation may or may not be given depending on how obvious the problem is. If you notice one of your posts has been deleted and do not know why, please pm the moderators for an explanation.
The staff or the owners of this forum do not continually monitor the posted messages, and as such, are not responsible for the content contained within. We do not warrant the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information presented. The posted messages express the views of the author, and not necessarily the views of this forum, its staff, its subsidiaries, or this forum's owner. Anyone who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to notify the administrators of this forum immediately. The staff and the owner of this forum reserve the right to remove objectionable content, within a reasonable time frame, if they determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, please realise that they may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately. This policy applies to member profile information as well.
You remain solely responsible for the content of your posted messages. In no event will the staff or owners of this site or any person or entity involved in distributing the site, be liable for any damages including, without limitation, indirect or consequential damages, or any damages arising out of or in connection with the use of this site. Furthermore, you agree to indemnify and hold harmless the owners of this forum, any related websites to this forum, its staff, and its subsidiaries.
This site contains hyperlinks to Web sites operated by parties other than this site. Such hyperlinks are provided for reference and convenience only. This site does not control such Web sites, and is not responsible for their content. This site does not necessarily endorse any of the material on such Web sites, or has any association with their operators.
You own the copyright to your messages. By posting or submitting material on this site, you grant the site owner a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right (including any moral rights) and license to publish, edit, modify, adapt, distribute, reproduce, communicate to the public, perform and display the submitted content (in whole or in part) on the worldwide web for the full term of any rights that may exist in the content.
The owners of this forum reserve the right to reveal your identity (or any other related information collected on this service) in the event of a formal complaint or legal action arising from any situation caused by your use of this forum.
This software places a cookie, a text file containing bits of information (such as your username and password), in your browser's cache. This is ONLY used to keep you logged in/out. The software does not collect or send any other form of information to your computer.
The rules are subject to change at any time, although an announcement regarding any changes will usually be made.
To me, a lot of the above is common sense, but you know the old adage about common sense. Open to suggestions on improving the moderation process so it optimizes the communities enjoyment of this site.
Hi Sue. I agree with you and Margaret.
Hi Jane. I have always stated that I have the upmost respect for breeders of Setters. In my opinion it is a 50/50 partnership between breeders and owners. We need each other. As for the pictures, most of what we see is much the same as what we have seen before. I can fully understand how a person is so pleased with their dog and wants everyone to see it. It does show they are proud to be a setter owner and that is a good thing. I do understand the point you have made.
Kindest regards. Andy
Sorry Mel but you have lost me here.....I wasn't aware that I was playing a game.
I really don't know where you get idea I want breeders to leave the site, I would be very happy if all members whether breeders, pet dog owners or anyone else want to stay :))
Reply ended up in the wrong place as usual!
How about using the code of conduct refered to in the original statment ? I would except all conditions without question just to be able to see the views of profesionals and novices <:0) Well Gene, could you put up a forum vote ??
Why is "one of the most experienced and knowledgeable show person/breeder no longer on the site" Sue?
Gene has been very open and the answer is fully explained above in the post. I accept the code of conduct. As Gene and David suggest it is common sense.
I must have been half asleep when I read it the first time.........thanks Rhonda
I keep reading Genes post. It does not mention a group of people being moderated, it talks about members and people. People are moderated on their individual behaviour.
Passionate discussion has not been stopped or restricted.
People who 'threaten' to leave like the site like they are some critical contributor whose departure will crater the site...
Again it talks about individual people not breeders or owners. Surely people can have a passionate discussion without having ongoing rude ‘fun’ at some other member’s expense. I don’t believe having rude fun is the trait of one particular group such as breeders or owners, we all choose to type what we type. However I would be saddened if this was used as an excuse to pressure members into accepting this behaviour no matter where I was.
I am not a member of a gang and I find it hard to understand when people gang up on one person. I don’t judge people by their faces but more by their actions. Even then, if the action is not driving someone off I simply observe.
I welcome reading the discussions of all experience levels on ES. I appreciate the discussions where breeders are sharing knowledge in a positive way.
To give an example of how valuable experienced breeders are on this list. A few months ago one of my dogs fell seriously ill with something that I had never heard of in any setter before. I contacted Eva , and she remembered straight away that somebody in Irish Setters had had a dog with the same thing, and this owner was also on Exclusively Setters. Within a few hours I was talking to the other owner on the phone and had got advice and information that I urgently needed, my dog was on the right medication from my vet , and after a few days was making a good recovery. Thats how communication through the internet makes it possible to make use of the knowledge of other experienced breeders in a way that just wasnt possible twenty years ago
A good example of a experienced breeder using their knowledge in a positive way. I would trust that the communication was polite and not rude. That your query was treated with respect and you were not given that respect because you were a member of a certain group. The pathway communication through the internet is still open for experienced breeders and every one with all types of experience.
And then unfortunately we have this type of communication as a comparison.
Mel the answer is in Genes very open explaination above in the post you are replying to.