A "whipsett", a Gorpet?? A bl***y disaster?

[Ossian]

I have been reading the outcross debate and some of the other stuff on here this week and I know there are some fine minds and caring people on ES! I am not a crusader, quite the opposite, but as a Setter owner and lover I have to highlight this!!

In the main we cross Seters by accident and when we see Lab x doodles and schmoozies and god knows what else we get annoyed but dont think much more.

Yesterday evening I came across an advert for puppies.

A "pet home" is advertsing Gordon x whippet for £300. There is a pic of a spindly orange puppy (cute at that age I suppose)

The Gordon community in UK is not large and I have subsequently discovered that the Gordon bitch has allegedly had a litter ever season and the "pet home" is not.

We quibble and bicker on here about all sorts of things but if we could do some good too?

Follow up on pups

Keep an eye on for sale ads on the net

Be nosy and report things that dont seem right

PLEASE dont condone these designer breeds anymore

[Rhonda Fisher]

Goodness Andy, if you are biased then you are going to have to write your replies a lot clearer. They read completly unbiased to me. Fair, balanced and a good point, that it is hard to make a balanced view on non pure bred breeders if they are not on the site to explain their many varied sides. Now if we are talking puppy farmers, non pure bred or pure bred then I would be biased. Are designer dog breeders and puppy farmers automatically the same thing?

[Bridget Simpson]

Andy, Margaret,

My statement is valid, but not for discussion on this Forum which concerns 'designer dogs'. 

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Rhonda.

Thank you so much. Someone understands me. That's never happened before! lol

[Rhonda Fisher]

Ahh I think lots of people understand you Andy, but probably are nodding thoughtfully at the computer. I know I was before I replied.

 

[eva ciechonska]

I cannot think that all breeders of designer dogs can be bad or uncaring and could not be classed as puppy farmers. Sadly Rhonda in my limited experience of seeing half a dozen examples and from the experiences of people I have met and spoken to it seems that many of them can be called puppy farmers on a smaller scale. The site of a bitch with their pups in a rusting crate certainly comes as shock. I wouldn't want to ever see that again.

[Rhonda Fisher]

I trust a double negative makes a positive and you are agreeing with Andy. 6 is not a large sample to call breedeers of non pure bred dogs puppy farmers,so again we seem to be agreeing with Andy.

I agree also that the site of of any dog living its life in a crate is a shock, non pure bred or pure bred. It was something that made me fill sick watching the first Pedigree Dogs Exposed where a small breed was stacked up worse than battery hens in plastic crates at the back of a shed.

It is about animal welfare and breeder responsiblity and not wether the dog is pure bred (pedigree) or non pure bred (designer). This is the out cry against this ongoing documentary from caring responsible breeders. I prefer not to try and fall into the same type of judgment of non pure breds. Otherwise I would have to say that Pedigree Dogs Exposed was a balanced, fair view of all pedigree breeders. I do not think it was. I think it was biased.

[eva ciechonska]

My experience added to the experience of others is far greater than you give us credit for Rhonda. Being an optimist a would hope that not all breeders of designer dogs can be as bad as the ones I saw. Pedigree Dogs Exposed the malpractices in the pedigree dog world. Do we need to add to it by cross mating dogs of various breeds together with no accountability to health issues, temperament etc just to make a fast buck. Is that not the gist of Ossian's thread? It is not a matter of bias or agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. My experience of half a dozen cases might be small to you but it is half a dozen cases too many in my book. 

[Rhonda Fisher]

 

Put simply we need to judge dog breeders on their individual merit as well as their dogs and not make assumptions. There are fast buck makers in both type of dog breeders and some breed lots of litters seeking the perfect show dog. Some breed for looks and extremes rather than health and temperament first.  Malpractices are in both pedigree and non pedigree. Mating of dogs should always be done with accountablility to health issues both in pedigree dogs and non pedigree dogs. I am sure we would agree that the more than six cases shown in Pedigree Dogs Exposed were too many, but that would not follow that mating of pure pedigree lines should stop.

I dont condone any dog breeder who is not doing the right thing by their dogs welfare, health and temperment. Sorry but this goes across the board, pedigree and non pedigree. Dont focus on the breed focus on the breeder and their individual decisions.  Iam sure people will stand by the Brittish Bull Dog but will not condone poor breeding choices which affect an individual dogs health.

[eva ciechonska]

Amen to that Rhonda.

[Rhonda Fisher]

Put simply we need to judge dog breeders on their individual merit as well as their dogs and not make assumptions. There are fast buck makers in both type of dog breeders and some breed lots of litters seeking the perfect show dog. More than 6 cases in Pedigree Dogs Exposed but I would not suggest that pedigree dog breeding should stop. Why should it be visa versa. Judge the individual breeder and their dogs not pedigree vs non pedigree.

 

[Rhonda Fisher]

Is a pure bred not a designed dog. All designer dogs with or without papers breeders need to be responsible for the welfare and health of their animals. No matter what their motive for breeding. I hope Sue that you reported these 'Kennels' to the appropriate authority. Stronger laws which can help the welfare and health for these animals no matter what the motive of the person for breeding are being introduced and it is a good thing. The main thing  is to have sufficient inspectors to put any non compliant dog breeder through a supervised self improvement program. I think I am wandering off the subject now. Apologies.

[eva ciechonska]

Sara we all know the costs of breeding a litter of dogs the size if Irish Setters. Most breeders rarely have a stud dog on site so there is his fee to consider. Then there is the welfare if the bitch, the rearing of the litter, veterinary costs and the all important hidden costs of hours spent and stress involved. Irish Settet puppies are going for around £750. This lady, and good for her that she keeps her dogs the way she does, has in house stud dogs so no expense there. Toys have smaller litters than IS but can still have a reasonable number. They cost virtually nothing to rear and, unlike IS, go like hot cakes. This lady can afford to have a few litters at a time whereas IS breeders have one litter at a time. This lady breeds only to sell whereas most IS breeders breed to keep and sell the others. If Her pups are going for upwards of £900 then you tell me if she isn't profiteering from the sale of what she is producing. She seems to be a very smart, financially savvy lady. Give em what they want and charge the bleedin earth. Unethical, immoral.........you decide.