Over reaching

[Rhonda Fisher]

What causes an Irish Setter to over reach in the show ring?

[Rhonda Fisher]

Sorry Sue

 

[Rhonda Fisher]

Well I will put my hand up. My Irish boys DO NOT MOVE like this horse and I am very happy to say so.

 

[Pat Aldridge]

Greg, if I had an Irish Setter that moved like that horse, I would place it in a pet home - desexed.

The Irish Setter is not built like a horse - I bred Anglo Arabs for years, so do have a little experience in them..

[Rhonda Fisher]

I am watching another video on horses. I really don't want an Irish Setter with a hackney gait. But perhaps this does answer the post. Some dogs over reach in the show ring because they are being trained and selected to present imitation dressage moves not the Irish Setters true movement.

[Torie Lancaster]

I think your question has been answered by some members as far as it can be Rhonda ( it beggars belief how horses have become such a large part of the discussion).

Over reaching seems to be caused by a number of factors which have been mentioned already.

Video clips of horses' on the move serve no purpose and would be better suited to a 'exclusively horses' website.

[Melinda Auld]

Here here, Pat.  An over-reaching horse does not even over-reach in the same way as a dog does, because their anatomy is not even close to the same.

[Rhonda Fisher]

Tori I agree my question has been answered by some members very well and I thank them all for the information and their knowledge. The fascination that some members have with horses and their movement and the determination in trying to link it to Irish Setter movement is interesting. Not at what they are posting but why!

Do these member's  Irish Setters have movement that mimic horses rather than true movement of Irish Setters? 

Are the terms they use borrowed from describing a horses movement ?

Is there a pattern of a kennel producing Irish with the same movement traits and presenting these in the show ring, with some judges rewarding this decision?

Is this a breeder fault rather than a individual dog or the lines fault?

The questions of why could go on for ever.

Is this the start of a new exaggeration in movement similar to the exaggeration in coat. How far can you push the terms true and moderate in respect to both?

Some breeders and judges are taking us on a journey,

I will hang onto my breed standard but without my horse books and observe from the ringside. I will  watch the results of some breeders and judges who are more experienced than myself in images, video and real life.

I now have two groups of answers. One with lots of information on Irish conformation and movement in the show ring. The second, breeders and judges choices and their influence on the breed. It also answers another question. Why do some owners post images of dogs with poor movement so proudly. Because sadly, that is what they like. 

But when those dogs start to neigh I will be turning completely away from bothering to watch the show ring.

[Pat Aldridge]

LOL Mel!

[Rhonda Fisher]

Mel I wouldl never try to single you out and call you a name, nor would I think that I had the right to suggest you find another breed and I would certainly not refer Irish setters as ET. If you found the reply I made a litle rude it does not justify that  personalised rude comments would be OK. Surprisingly enough I am not taking your advice.

[Torie Lancaster]

I was going to mention the likeness to Afghans in a previous reply after watching the dogs at Westminster but thought I may offend others by commenting, but now you have said it Mel, I totally agree with you.  I don't think the way the dogs are trimmed helps either.

I can't say I noticed ET there though!

[eva ciechonska]

Rhonda, I excused myself from this discussion three days ago because I got sick and tired of having my comments twisted by you. You have still not answered questions that I put to you. I have followed this forum with interest but 8 pages on and this discussion has gone no further. Everyone is running round in circles with you, offering answers to your comments which you are constantly discarding. What exactly do you want from this discussion because you are forever changing direction. Pat Aldridge made a lovely comment on a previous forum, similar to this one...."We are not producing white goods, we are breeding dogs........" This is very pertinent here. Breeding dogs is not an exact art. These are living, breathing animals, they have joints, they grow in different ways and with all the best will in the world things can go wrong. Every breeder tries their best but if you want a precision product, built to the perfect specification then buy yourself a car........and even a car goes wrong. There can be no hard guarantees in dog breeding. If you are not interested in showing or the finer points then concentrate on a happy, healthy dog and who cares whether it over reaches. You have two brothers. If everything is good with them then go back to the same breeder for your next dog.
I have already answered you on why I think dogs over reach so I am not going to repeat myself. I can see why Mel is banging her head against a brick wall with you, and she is not the only one. We are trying to help you here so work with us, not against us.

[Rhonda Fisher]

I have not twisted your comments Eva. A lot of my posts have been correcting the generalisations that you post and then put my name to them and clarifying what I have said. If these are the questions below I chose to ignore them. I never posted these ideas. You do a summary paragraph and then you add my name to it.  I found your ideas with mine and Melinda' name on them ridiculous. I refuse to work with your ideas when they are insulting. Over and over again I made it clear that this was not about country vs country. I corrected this with the briefest post I could at the time. No name calling involved.

'You and Melinda have commented on the movement and conformation of Australian dogs.  Even though Australia has adopted the UK Breed Standard breeders lean towards the American way of presentation and of course they import many dogs from the US.  You both feel the dogs are built and move badly.  Perhaps you can give us an insight in to why.  I am sure the breed clubs have put on seminars about this subject.  What do they say?'

No one is running in circles, no discussions are being discarded, the post has progressed from useful information to horse videos and breeders preference and many things in between.

Mel has kindly renamed me, told me to go to another breed and you are sweetly advising me to buy a new car. Would you like to suggest what 'type'? Is it allowed to be red?

I think one can combine being interested in showing, the finer points AND concentrate on health and good  temperament. I would also include good movement into the mix. These are not the only things I would include.

Is the breeder my boys came from still breeding!

Yours and Mel's posts have been interesting to say the least.

My current car is a nice little  blue Citroen which I adore, please understand when I don't follow your advise on the new car either.

I do not mean to be disrespectful, I am trying to combat certain style of comments with humour.