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What causes an Irish Setter to over reach in the show ring?

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The point is as demonstrated through out this forum that there are many interpretations of the breed standard. As a judge I thought the invitation to start another discussion would have some value. Discussion about things is usually healthy unless some one feel threatened by the subject matter and tries to personalise it. At the start I said plainly why I started the forum and that I was not a breeder. If you are serious about changing my position as a breeder, send over a million dollars AUS and I will buy a larger property, give up my career and start.

 This is from my second reply on the first page.

I would love to see more images of moving Irish and less of stacked ones. It is amazing what happens to some tails when they are on the move and not being held. But that its another topic. I am not a breeder, just an observer who reads the breed standard. I look forward to knowing a little more before I purchase my next Irish.

Then again the invitation to start a new post on the forum so people can discuss their views about your statement or worse in the breed belief . A little less dramatic than your desire to bang your head against a wall and maybe more productive.

Mel is correct, Rhonda - there are worse faults in IS than over-reaching.  In the wider scheme of breeding it really isn't a biggie for me - however I wouldn't use an Irish that was built wrongly.

Part of the reason for asking why do they over reach specifically so that when you are looking to purchase an Irish setter you have a broader understanding. It is ONE thing I would look at. A broader understanding of why is useful not only for breeders but people who wish to purchase a sound Irish Setter. In that sense I feel that Mel is wrong. Look at the question again, it never indicates that this is the most important, or the only fault. I would not purchase the poor moving Irish that had been desexed. A companion home (Pet Home) is not a dumping ground especially at a  $1000.00 a pup. If breeders want the breed to expand and have more people interested in and purchasing Irish setters then responses such as Mel's are not going to do that. 

 I am sorry but what the heck! Suspension trots, rubber boots, cantering and galloping around the ring and now I am left wondering if Greg wants to saddle up Queen of Rock to keep her on track.  Is any one else feeling like we have been transported from ES back to our younger days of pony club. Perhaps I need to pick my old horse books up instead of the breed standard!

Only problem for me is that the comparison is not just the gaits of a horse and a dog. This is a rider on a trained horse in a dressage situation. For ES I would have thought a video of a Irish moving would have made a clearer contribution. or even better a few Irish Setters moving showing varied movements.

I was all excited for a moment Sue, then I am watching another video on horses. I really don't want an Irish Setter with a hackney gait. But perhaps this does answer the post. Some dogs over reach in the show ring because they are being trained and selected to present imitation dressage moves not the Irish Setters true movement.

Is this how you want your Irish Setter to move?

No Tracey I did not want to see horse videos when I was asking about Irish Setter movement. I have answered why I posted what I did over and over again. I have mentioned I understand about young dogs and those are not the ones I am looking at. My question if a simple one. Is this how you want your Irish Setter to move. You haven't answered that question.

McDowell Lyon had a background in horses and wrote a book on equine construction and gait which sold very well, so his publishers asked him to write another book about dogs, in spite of the fact he knew little about dogs. He simply applied what he knew about horses to dogs, sadly some of that has passed on down as the gospel on dog construction and gait, and its very hard to change ideas that derived from him - like the 45 degree shoulder angle being functional when in fact no big running dog breed has shoulders with that kind of angle, which he might have noticed had he actually looked at dogs like desert bred salukis or greyhounds or foxhounds

I don't know about this but thank you for posting it. This idea that the gaits are identical and then overlay the last posted video I am sitting here in disbelief. Would one of our learned judges like to critique this movement for us.

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