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As an interim measure until the official register provided by the Kennel Club is fully up and running, the SEISC has decided to offer an opportunity for owners to post their recent PRA rcd4 DNA test results.
This will be on our PRA rcd4 page.
This is available to all owners worldwide not just SEISC members and will be in a similar format to that already used by the Kennel Club.

For further details please see the Club website www.seisc.co.uk.


Listing will be available sometime today - slight kink in my "html"  !!

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The rcd4 test has been tried on a number of DNA samples from IRWS at the AHT, including I think the IRWS diagnosed with LOPRA ? But they all came up negative. I will not be surprised if rcd4 eventually does show up in IRWS however, so no bad thing to be testing for it. I have also  had one of my IRWS tested already for rcd4 (clear) , the AHT havent queried why the test was done, and I will probably be testing another one soon

Susan, IRWS are being tested for rcd4 at the request of the Genetic Sub-Committee of the IRWSCGB, as part of the ongoing research into eye problems in the breed.  The AHT now have an extensive collection of DNA from 'old' IRWS for a study into the progress/status of the eye of the aging dog as well as endeavouring to crack the Post Polar Cataract situation - incidentally a condition found in several breeds and influenced by several genes - not always the same genes in every breed and which accounts for the slow progress.

From the very beginning of IRWS in the UK (30 years ago) PRA rcd1 has been watched for - with none being found or reported in spite of annual examination.  Now 2 cases of LOPRA and one probable case have been found in old dogs.  They have been tested with the rcd4 test - they don't have rcd4.  Other samples from the 60+ recent samples have been rcd4 tested at our request - they don't have rcd4 either.

Other countries' IRWS are co-operating - Finland and the USA being particularly prominent, we would like more, of course! 

And yes, the AHT do know the difference between IRWS and IS ;o]))

The GB IRWS Club has a long and active relationship with them for CLAD DNA testing, our breed-funded vWD test, 16 years of PPC research, our interest in Inbreeding Depression and the intricacies of outcrossing to another breed.

At the moment PRA rcd? is a concern for all three Setter breeds and until there are more cases that do not fit rcd1 or rcd4, this particular mutation cannot be identified.

Thank you for your replies, Margaret and Ann.

I was curious about the 'state of the art' as I recently wrote an article for the Swiss Setter & Pointer Club about PRA-rcd4 in Irish Red & Gordon Setters and added a note stating that the situation in IRWS was as yet unclear and the test was not available for IRWS. Looking on the webshop of the AHT PRA-rcd4 is still not listed as available for IRWS. Now if I understand you correctly the IRWSCGB is actively promoting that the breed should be tested for PRA rcd4. In that case I assume Swiss dogs could also be tested?

I apologize for saying the AHT may not know the difference between the breeds... admittedly that was a bit tongue in cheek as I was thinking of my experience in 2010 when my Glen (IRS) was termed an IRWS by the KC after winning his COM at a trial, despite a photograph being published alongside the text. ;-)) In Switzerland this kind of mistake could happen quite easily.

Susan let me muddy your water  a bit!

IS breeders had idnetified some eye problems

which were almost certainly RCD? some time

before the UK Gordoners "went public"

I suspect the Gordon owners mobilised and orgamised

 themselves pretty efficiently and overtook the AHT.

We gave tremendous amounts of support and attention (and money)

and the resulting speed of response gave us a DNA test in 18 months.

However we wonder if it  came at the expense of the IS research.

Debv Boutrell told us very early on that she had been asked not

to publuish her result but hold off until the AHT advised her.

They felt that Gordons were RCD 4 and IS were perhas not the same mutation

I feel a little cynically that the AHT were churning out Gordon tests and needed to hold of the onslaught fromn IS breeders  who they knew would be just as desperate to test. I have noticed many similarities in their "pronouncements" before and classically - as their feet cleared - we had information from AHT that IS did indeed have RCD4 and IS could start to order DNA kits.

It deeplu concerns me that IRWS have not beem included in the current round "officially" as I believe we have been given the same advise as the IS were "it may not be RCD 4"

I await the next tranche of information from AHT with great interest, especially in light of Ann's

reassurance that she is working so closely with AHT on this !

Well, Ossian, seems you can't escape politics, not in the dog world nor in the world outside...

Aha,Ossian, perhaps I didn't make it clear. 

The IRWS tested for rcd4 were done for research purposes as the clinical examination of candidates for the current DNA collection for PPC research had produced two confirmed cases of retinal atrophy and one probable case.

Apart from an unregistered IRWS diagnosed in 2004 (Late Onset PRA in some form probably) that disappeared without further contact, there is no record of PRA in IRWS, in spite of looking for it.

It is not known if the rcd1 DNA test would work on IRWS because we haven't had a case of rcd1 PRA.  The 3 cases of LOPRA and the 20 'control' dogs were tested to check if rcd4 is present. There is apparently no rcd4 - affected or carriers - in the breed from that sample.  Whether the mystery mutation that also occurrs in IS and Gordons is the same as the one in IRWS has still to be identified.

Now that Gordon Setters have a DNA test for rcd4 that also works for most Irish Setters, owners can request (and pay for) a DNA test for their dogs at the Diagnostic Testing Department of the AHT - IRWS are with the Genetic Research Department.

When the Late Onset PRA in IRWS is identified (a heap more affected dogs are needed) and a DNA test developed for it, IRWS will join Gordons and Irish in the Diagnostic Testing department and owners will pay for the test.  At the moment IRWS PRA is only a research project, but there is nothing to stop IRWS owners from testing their dogs for rcd1 and rcd4 and finding that they do not have either - but it still does not further the solving of the identity of the 'mystery' mutation.  Of course, if these IRWS owners DO finfd they have rcd1 or rcd4 - then that's a whole different ball game!!!


DUBLINER MAC CLOUD (Jonola Dr.Doolitle x Honeygardens Imitation)
DNA TEST FOR GENE CAUSING PROGRESSIVE RETINAL ATROPHY (rcd4) IS CLEAR!!!!!!!!!!!im on seven sky!!!!Thanks to Breeders to Ann and to Aleks!!!

congratulations on your result red feather so pleased for you

We also got test results of Lola Run Diervilla (Indian Summer Sky Diervilla x Amazing Duke Cinammons) - and she is CLEAR!!!!!!

On the same turn  we made test for Duke - Amazing Duke Cinammon's (Vicary's Up To Glory x Balintyne's Wild About Harry). Duke is also CLEAR :)))))


Thank you Camilla, they both are part of your family as well :)

great news for you kasia so pleased you have both clears

Thank you Lyn, today it turned out all 4 tested are clear, so even more luck ;))))




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