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Due to problems accessing the AHT website Dr Nigel Holmes has kindly agreed to extend the "promotional code" for the South fo England Irish Setter Club until 31st August. Unfortunately the original code cannot still be used so a new one has had to  be issued and will have to be obtained again from the SEISCwebmaster. The AHT apologises for any inconvenience caused!

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Have been out all day and have come back to an amazing increase in the posting on this discussion.

Dee, reference averages I stand corrected and apologise. 

Your comment is very lucid and informative.  I totally agree with you that line breeding is ok when it works.  Barring a mutation if a line is clear then there is nothing detrimental to inherit.  When it is tainted problems certainly arise.  Unfortunately many times it is impossible to know what lurks in the background until the mating occurs and it is too late.  It can be tragic for both breeder and the dogs.  You can, of course, outcross in an attempt to clear your line and end up worse off than before.

I agree with Camilla's point that you can outcross and still retain type.  I think any careful breeder who does their research can employ both line breeding and outcrossing in a manner to benefit all.



Actually Eva.... It is very interesting that my bitch from Mel has a high COl and DOES HAVE PROBLEMS!!

She has allergies which cause her to suffer severe reactions to conifers and certain plants.

She has over active tearducts so her eyes are always runny.

She also has entropian which will require surgery.

No problems!!!!!





I stand corrected.

Would not the over active tearducts be the result of her entropion and how long has she had that.  Dogs don't just develop entropion at her age.  If she has had it a long time and it is bad enough to require an operation then why haven't you done something about it? 

Allergies to conifers are widespread among humans too.  I have to wear protection when I prune them.  Allergies to certain plans are also common in dogs and humans.  There are many plants that would produce a rash or inflammation or worse.  Would you care to elucidate?

I notice with interest you "stand corrected " quite a few times on this discussion lately!

I will decide who I do and do not share information with regarding my dogs.



No accusations have been made....purely facts!

Read the above!!!


Val..........you are a tonic.................I haven't stopped laughing since I read your response to me..........keep 'em coming girl!!!!!  Meanwhile I will go and have an intelligent conversation on another part of this site cos, after all, it is more interesting.

This is not a reply to anyone. It is just me with my opinion.

I have been following this with interest.
I am not a breeder. I am just another person that loves Irish Setters.
This is my opinion for what that’s worth. (Not very much I know).
Responsible breeders and owners all want the same basic thing, a good looking dog that is healthy.
We must not confuse responsible breeders with puppy farmers or back street breeders.
The breed is without doubt getting better every year with less health issues than ever before and that is due to responsible breeders.
I know that responsible breeders do not just put any dog and bitch together.
The way my last Irish Setter had been bred was to say the least, iffy.
She was a beautiful looking girl that we loved dearly, but with numerous health problems. She may have started her life in a puppy farm, but we will never know. She was 12.5 years old when we lost her.
To produce a good litter, responsible breeders put a lot of time, money and effort into it. On the whole, they know what they are doing and do not wish to produce litters with problems. We now have the most beautiful, healthy Irish Setters than ever before. Thanks to responsible breeders.
I am happy to leave the breeding tactics to the ones that understand it best, the responsible breeders.
Just my opinion and you are welcome to shoot me down in flames, if you wish.


Amen Susan

Andy people like you are the 'customers' we breeders want...looking after our puppies...(and yes for me they will always be mine...my puppies that is, writeley or wrongley ) this is the kind of thing that I feel stronly about, people like yourself take the vast majority of puppies that are breed, and we as breeders should take full responsability for what we produce....so all the DNA tests that are available should be done and all the health checks should be made...I lived with my beautiful girl for nearly 5 years before I brought a litter into this world I asked questions of the Stud dog owner..re his health....looked at puppies that he had produced well before I used him...but...the 'back street breeder' can just go and buy a puppy from anywhere, (I also knew the reputation of my bitches breeder) and find the nearest dog of the same breed and put them together....for them its making money..becasue they sell their puppies for the same as I would...the difference being they probably haven't made all these checks...but things can still go wrong for me...but for them, they probable haven't done ALL the DNA test that are out there....probably not the latest rcd4 so they can, for the moment still produce dogs with this gene...and could produce puppies that can go blind...

But that being said...you have as much rite to say anything on this subject...your thoughts count...please don't put yourself down...we as breeders should be listening to your thoughts and people like you, just because we have been ''in'' this breed for many years doesn't make us ''gods'' but like god we should be listening to you..and as Susan says your words of wisdom

Dee, I thank you. Andy
You are very welcome....




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