Preference when breeding?

[John B. Hughes/Absinthe]

I get the impression that some here think the perfect Irish setter is either kennel specific/country specific/inbred or outbred specific/beauty versus function specific/or just some nebulous specific.  If it is not out of an English pure kennel, then somehow it has  been contaminated.  If it has been bred to a US Irish setter - most of which go back to English kennels-   then somehow AKC has influenced and contaminated their line.  If it has too much or too little coat-straight or wavy, what to do or apologize for?  So what do most of you look for when breeding and how open is your mind to other kennels/other types/other countries and types when you consider breeding?  Are most here willing to go out of the box and take a chance or stay with what they think they know and continue on as they always have?      

   

[Kim Murray]

Hi Eva,
I am very interested in your comment on your Louis throwing himself into his front as a young dog. I have one currently doing just that. DO you have any suggestions for improving it or do they just have to outgrow it? many thanks Kim

[eva ciechonska]

Kim.................apologies, hadn't been on this discussion for some time and only just saw your question. Louis grew out of this. You might try stacking him round the other way but whatever you do don't pull him back by the tail.......it only makes it worse. Have patience.......

[Kim Murray]

...

[John B. Hughes/Absinthe]

Eva,
I have one of Ch. Wolfscroft Amaranthus 1957 and will scan tonight (my tonight) and post it for you. After having all the tendons in his left leg severed and told by his vet that nothing could be done, an orthopedic surgeon undertook his repair. He relearned to walk and after one year earned his CD . He hunted in the field with Dr. Casper and with the patience of dog and owner, returned to the show ring, finishing his bench Ch in a breze. Neat dog and owner! John

[John B. Hughes/Absinthe]

Eva,
You really don't see this much in the US. We do teach our dogs to hold their own tails up-when stacking them in training we repeatedly stroke the underside of the tail and with time most dogs will do it themselves. Many here believe that not touching the tail at all and letting the dog do it better shows off this feature to the judge. If you see pics of most of the top US dogs, you will not see a hand on the tail.

[eva ciechonska]

Thanks John. Bearing in mind the American Breed Standard states that the tail should be an extension of the back why are the tails held (or encouraged to be held up) so high in stacked dogs. I appreciate, looking back on archive photos this style of handling has been in place for some time so what was the original idea behind it? May I also ask about presentation and grooming. The dogs exhibited at the Speciality I attended were extremely well presented but the coats were nowhere near as "sculpted" as they seem to be now. Again the American Breed Standard has a paragraph on presentation for the show ring which describes trimming to the neck ears and feet but states that "all trimming is done to preserve the natural appearance of the dog". So what actually goes into presenting the modern IS?

[John B. Hughes/Absinthe]

Eva,
I really haven't seen what you are talking about here. I have seen champions with "gay" tails being shown--a big no no years ago-another example of bad judging. The current trend is to train the dog to hold up his own tail -no hands) by daily teasing the underside when stacking. As for the sculpted look, it's probably due to the fact that today with proper care we have coats that would drag on the ground if left untrimmed. I did ask a breeder/handler why and was told that there were some judges that would not put them up unless their dog was trimmed in this manner-but that's the other discussion on judging, right!

[eva ciechonska]

John,
I am not talking about gay tails. If you compare the way European dogs are stacked against American dogs you can see that the tails are held much lower in the former than the latter. Infact tails on European and UK dogs are held level with or just below the back. So....hence my reference to the American Breed Standard description. If the tail is to be a continuation of the back then it would be held level with it not so much above it.

[John B. Hughes/Absinthe]

Eva,
I see your point and to be honest I do it both ways. If I'm standing I probably hold it higher-never really gave it much thought. If there was a reason why some would do it on purpose, it might be to cover up a slight drop in the croup. A flat top line standing and moving is a preference right now, but getting the dog to do it on his own is the best.

[Kim Murray]

What is the proper care that you speak of for the coats. Can you please give me some idea of what you do and use to care for such big coats as I am having trouble with some of my coats? many thanks

[John B. Hughes/Absinthe]

Kim,

     You ask a very good question, and I'd like to give you an easy concise answer, but there isn't one.  Coat quality  is very much a function of genetics coupled with proper care, health, environment  and nutrition.  Care needs vary from dog to dog - daily for some and weekly for others.  The  best advice that I can offer you   is to check with others who share your dog's coat type and blood lines.  They can share their experiences  with you-  what has or hasn't worked for them.  Then you have to choose for yourself-OK?            

[Peter Hennig]

Hi Kim what sort of trouble are you having with your dogs coat?  I brush and comb my boy two to three times a week and the day before a show he gets washed with a good quality shampoo and conditioner blown dry then light spray of leave in conditioner and a satin coat put on him and he looks and feels stunning