Sire and Dam details in Litter Advertisements

[Rhonda Fisher]

A interesting new trend in advertisements on Dogs on line pure breed website. Litters of Irish being advertised with no mention of the Dam or Sire. Ads talk of proven show lines, bloodlines that have proven to be successful around the globe, features some of Australiasias top bloodlines, all Uk and european lines etc.

No names of the Dam and Sire.

Contact with the breeders has to be made before you can find out.

I find this strange as I would want to know more about the health and background of the pups up front. What do you think

[Rhonda Fisher]

So if you don't show or breed but own an Irish setter you are a pet owner. I think owners who choose a sport other than showing may find this statement a bit arrogant. Perhaps there needs to be a real effort to lift some show chins and look far outside the ring and really appreciate Irish and their owners who do not choose to show but have very fine Irish. Not all breeders are hanging around a show ring to make their selections. Tracking, fielding, agility, obedience, endurance etc etc dogs do not have come to come out of show dogs. Just my opinion of course.

[Rhonda Fisher]

Straight out of eva's reply above. I will post the section below so it is clear.

Please tell me when has 'pet owner' become a derogatory term?  Why do you think it is? I have never used it as such. It is just a description of someone who doesn't breed or show dogs but owns them.  How else can you differentiate?

[Rhonda Fisher]

Sue H. When you thought it was my comment you wanted to reply to it. Now that I have clearly shown you where it came from, don't you want to take up your disscussion with Eva? You clearly felt strongly about it and I would be interested in reading a disscussion about the statement between you and Eva. Both you and I agree on this one as I said.

[Rhonda Fisher]

Sue you asked me why would I make the assumpion that just because the term pet owner is used , it means all owners other than show owners. You asked me where was that said. I told you simply it was not my comment.

If people make an assumption and attach my name to it I will try to explain what I have said and not said. Even if that takes 3 goes after the person says they are lost. . Ask me where something was said and I will copy it for you. Say that I said something when I didn't, I will try to correct the misunderstanding. This is really time consuming and really takes the focus off  the disscussion. If it makes for a clearer discussion I make the effort. After all that effort to be clear I really hope you are not accusing me of nit picking. You asked the questions I answered them. Be fair Sue My post was about putting the names of the sire and dam on puppy litter adverts.

[Rhonda Fisher]

Sue The post was about the need for the names of the sire and dam to help look at health and background. Show lines came from the adverts. Sorry you ae bored.

[Rhonda Fisher]

I agree Sue read the rest of my reply not just the first line. That is apart from the pet people comment.

[eva ciechonska]

Oh goodness me Rhonda, this is tiresome and unproductive.  Neither you nor Susan know me and arrogance is not part of my makeup. I am sure there are plenty of other descriptions you might like to utilise and I hold my hands up to many of them but not to that one.  I do not join in or comment on anything I do not know about and I am only trying to give you the benefit of my experience. I have been a pet owner myself and find absolutely nothing wrong with that.  When I was a pet owner all I wanted was a companion dog, not a shooting dog nor a tracking dog nor an obedience dog nor a sporting dog.  There are thousands of people who buy pedigree dogs for no other reason than to extend the family and because they love to own them and owning and living with them is all they want to do.  I feel it is you and Susan who are being derogatory about pet owners not I.

Your original thread only mentioned adverts about pedigree dogs from proven show lines not from any of the above.  You are now digressing from your own discussion just to take a pop at me.  What point is there to that.

[Rhonda Fisher]

Eva I am not digressing. I was stunned at you statement. I found your statement arrogant. I am commenting on what you write not on you. I think you need to read my replies again if you feel I am being derogatory about pet owners as you certainly have formed a strange opinion from what has been clearly written. I am not taking a pop at you, I am discussing a comment you have made that seems to be very narrow and not representing Irish Setter owners, sports or the breed in a reasonable way.

[eva ciechonska]

No Rhonda that is not what you are doing.  This discussion, with your input and my input was going along just fine and we were exchanging information amicably even though we were not always agreeing with each other.  Now the thread has been turned on it's head over a comment that I made some time ago that you did not originally find arrogant or discourteous. 

You originally asked members opinion on the fact that names of sire and dam are not included in adverts from proven show lines and bloodlines that have been proven to be successful around the globe.......  this, by your choice, narrowed the discussion down to pedigree show dogs and not any other aspect of 'Irish Setter owners, sports or the breed'.  In that context I have replied.  As Sue said, if you want a working dog then you buy from working lines etc.  There is no mention of this aspect of ownership in your thread.  I am surprised you were stunned by my reply because I cannot believe that much stuns you as not much stuns me but I do admit to being surprised at your ability to take chunks from my response and move off at a tangent completely altering the meaning of what was clearly written.

Let us step back a pace and agree on the paramenters of your discussion.  Are we talking about people buying pedigree dogs from proven show lines as companion dogs or for obedience, tracking etc, because that was not made clear from your thread.  Working dogs are another subject, also not mentioned.  I am able to comment on the breeding of show dogs and the sale of companion dogs and health and temperament aspects pertinent to that, as this is my sphere of experience.  I leave the rest up to others more experienced in the breeding of working and sporting dogs, of which I have knowledge but no experience.  Pick the bones from that.

[Rhonda Fisher]

Yes Eva that is what I am doing. My post was looking at the need for the Sire and Dam names to be able to research  health and background. The health aspect has taken the disscusion in many directions. The statement discussed was not taken off on a tangent it was discussed in direct relation to what was being discussed at the time. You wrote this statement so it would be natural that you would not be surprised when it was discussed. 

 This is turning from a discussion on the advertising of sire and dam names to what will Eva want to include in the agreement of the parameters of the post. Seriously Eva you want me to re post to parameters that you and I agree on. Are you serious. The answer is simple the post is what it is and has been. If you feel you need more control or this one does not suit, start another post please.

[eva ciechonska]

....this is turning from a discussion on the advertising of sire and dam names to what will Eva want to include in the agreement of the parameters of the post.......

Once again Rhonda I admire your ability to totally turn words around.  I have always stuck to the parameters of your discussion and all my replies and my opinions have been within that context.  The post is indeed what it is. You have gone outside the parameters of this discussion by introducing other forms of activity within the breed. This is your thread why on earth would I want control over it.  Please don't put words into my mouth. 

In all fairness the discussion has run it's course and no one apart from you seems to set much store by including names of sire and dam within an advert, or if they have they certainly haven't said so. 

Incidentally I am a pet owner who is successful in the showing judging and breeding of pedigree Irish Setters.  My dogs all live in the house and are treated as family pets.  I don't breed much and my litter of last year was the first in 10 years.  My advert included the pedigree, photos and a bit about health checks.....that is all.  The rest was done by discussion and I found that very successful. 

[Rhonda Fisher]

 I have enjoyed reading and responding to page 6. No personal attacks, no rudeness, no rule setting or accusations. Just interesting discussion. I trust you will understand Eva C when you no longer receive any replies from me. Yours are off the post and toxic and I can longer be bothered with them.