flee and worm treatments

[silvia]

HI all

just wish to share some comments about the flee and worm treatments. We live in the UK and, over the years, we always treated Oberon with drontal (every 3 months) and advocate pipette (monthly). But, since these do not cover for thick and other deseases common in mediterranean countries, when we travel in summer in south france and corsica we  integrate with a second pipette of advantix and also a scalibor collar

now, our vet changed the suggested course of action and now they recomment brevecto (every 3 months) and milbemax (monthly). this will cover also the thick in summer, but they are both in pills. I understand the point that the pipette can wash out and they had several dogs affected by deseases because the pipette was not penetrating the skin on time (it rains a lot in UK).. still, I am a bit concerned in giving him a tick poison by mouth

we are in this new plan since a couple of months, and there are no side effects, so maybe is ok.... still: has anyone some thoughts and experiences  on this ? I heard bad stories on milbemax but maybe is just that some dogs can be sensitive and matter of trial and errors? so far for us there are not visible effects. what shall we look for, in case??

thanks!!!! cheers

silvia

[Cornelia]

Hi there Silvia, 

Bravecto is on the market since about four years now and it was recommended to me and I have many friends who use it for their dogs with good results - BUT - I was reluctant and did not try it, because Joy is an epileptic and once the pill is swallowed, that's it - you can not take it off like a collar. 

I read now, that there were indeed cases of dogs with trembling, cramps and epileptic fits and the EMA (European Medicines Agency) ordered in Spring 2017 to monitor the drug and came to the conclusion that the use-risk-ratio is  still adequate but they ordered to put a warning among the adverse reactions to use it with caution for dogs with known epilepsy! I'm glad, I never tried it!! And I never will now...thanks for putting this post up and make me think about it once more. 

Oberon is not an epileptic and if he is fine with it - good for you! We use the seresto collar now, because Joy gets itchy rashes from both, the scalibor and the seresto, but the latter is faster in the effect and so I put it on and take it off (put it in a sealed plastic bag), depending on the places, we visit or how the tick season is developing. Scalibor takes about a week - however seresto does not protect agains sandflies who transmit leishmaniasis - so if you're traveling south, scalibor is surely the better option when using a collar. Can you combine it with bravecto? There is probably no need for that anymore, like when you used advantix and co...?

As for Milbemax - Joy is treated approximately once every three months and is fine with it. She never had any side effects, also not when she had to take it twice within ten days (like when going to Norway some years ago). Of course, I give it to her, when going to England, Sweden or Norway (only once now!) and I treat her on coming back from southern countries, because of heart worm - and when she has found something ugly to eat, like dog poo...!!!! I don't not know about side effects for milbemax.

Best of luck, C & J xxx

[silvia]

Hi Cornelia!

gosh, 4 years: I havent realised braveto has been around for so long.. Thanks for all information: so far we are trying with no problems but I will keep an eye to these nervous system signs. Hopefully we wont have any ..

and : yes, one of the advantages is that probably Bravecto+milbemax can cover all, and  we may not need the collar next summer. I still have to check this with the vet, but thanks for raising the point : )

I am glad Joy has found a solution that works for her ! I think there is now a vaccine   for leishmaniasis, developed in spain few years ago and quite diffuse, but we never used it since we do only the occasional travel in South Europe.

Thanks and hugs to Joy !!!!!!

cheers

silvia

[James Doran]

I use Milbemax chewable every three months (which I cut up into the main meal). Drontal did not agree with either of my boys, both in terms of how to get it into them, and how they were afterwards, but no issues with Milbemax whatsoever. Have not had any issues with fleas or ticks here, but would not try Bravecto personally as I would be concerned after seeing the reactions of some setters to it! If I had to, I would use an external application for that problem. Experience has taught me to question everything, do my own research, and make up my own mind!

[silvia]

Thanks  a lot James! Which issues are you aware of with brevecto ? What shall I look for as symptoms? Oberon has taken two doses so far (every 3 months ) and is due the next one mid December.  ..thanks a lot for sharing!! Cheers Silvia 

[Cornelia]

Hi Silvia, why is Oberon's next dose of bravecto due in December? I mean, I know he is on a 3 month treatment but do you have ticks in winter time? And if, are dangerous diseases a problem, where you live? I can remember that Laura had to protect her dogs when she still lived in Hungary all year round but here in Switzerland, people only protect their dogs, when the ticks are out and about. So they could get by with two doses of bravecto say from about mid April to mid October. I'm not a doctor but a half year rest of the stuff, would give his body a half year rest and is then less likely to build up an averse reaction, than if he would be on it continuously...? This at least would be my logic.

The forest behind our house - you know the one, we walked there :-)) - is full of ticks (we even have/had ticks in the garden!) -  but it is not infested much with diseases, whereas if I cross over the river Rhine into Germany, the area is dangerous because of Borreliosis (in fact hubby got it this spring...!) and into France one of my ES friends dogs had Ehrlichiosis, if I remember correctly. So Joy has no need of tick protection during winter time and I only put the collar on in spring when the ticks are too numerous or when we go into disease infested areas. Ticks don't move about much btw. - if they don't have a host - only 3-4 meters from where they originated. I saw a reportage once about an area in Germany, where one meadow was fine (ticks yes, but no disease) and the one across the path was so full of ticks with FSME, that the scientist would only go in with protective suits! Cuddles to Obi xxx

[James Doran]

Silvia, from my recollection it was severe neurological reactions of a fitting nature. Some dogs were never the same afterwards. It scared me seeing the videos anyway! I know worming is necessary, but I don't believe that flea/tick medication is (or at least not all the time!) unless your dog has them. My Rory is two and a half now, and I have never used any flea/tick meds on him (and I won't unless I have to!). I would never take another dog to a forest again after what happened to Romeo (Alabama rot I am convinced), and I avoid long grasses also so I generally try to negate the risk of same. I check and groom his coat regularly, so I would soon know if there was an issue. I am a great believer in as little as possible and only if absolutely necessary when it comes to any form of meds/treatments for my dog! 

[silvia]

Dear James and Cornelia

thanks for your answers and inputs, much appreciated. In answer to James: I completely understand your point (unless I have too) and I am prone to say that less is better, but we have so many horrible deseas with thiks in london (last year there was a new super thik that alerted everybody in london parks!) and in countries were we travel (see Cornelia post) that i also want maximal protection.. of course is a hard balance and I take the point from Cornelia about why to integrate milbemax with bravecto in winter months (when we can just use a standard flee treatment).. i asked my vet and i am waiting the response. their course of action is , instead of advocate every month plus drontal every 3 months to use milbemax monthly and bravecto every 3 months all year. i will investigate and let you know.

regarding the terrible experience with the alabama rot, we really really symphatize with  you james and the scar is still open.. : ( .. it has been a really sad and terrible experience and I am grateful you have taken the time to share  with us what happened to the wonderful romeo.. after i have been reading your story i always maniacally check the alabama rot alerts in uk forests and never walk Oberon there.. Romeo had a really bad luck and at least i hope that your willing to sharing the sad experience  may help to avoid other dogs to go through that..  but, yes, the scar is open..

thanks again both, i will post the outcome of our vet response in case is useful for others ! all the best silvia

[Cornelia]

Hi Silvia, I'm actually not quite sure, if you understood my last post, the way I meant it. I meant to say that people here don't treat their dogs for ticks in winter time - at all. Just milbemax for Joy, when she gulps down other dogs poo...yuck!! I treat her like James with an 'as-little-as-possible' and 'as-much-as-necessary' attitude. The reason why we don't protect Joy against ticks in winter is, that they are not active in lower temperatures. We even went to Sicily this February (brrrr - it was cold!) and the last three years over Easter to Sardinia and only one year have I seen ticks - so I put the collar on only then. Would be interesting to see, what your vet says and what diseases there are at your place. 

I'm so sorry, James, to read about what happened to Romeo. It must have been a terrible and very sad experience for you all :-(. I never heard of Alabama rot and I'm ever so thankful that you mentioned this now and that we can be cautious on our next trip to England. Is there a page with these alerts? For we intend to go back and up north again next year. We've seen loads of ticks last year btw. all through England and Scotland! Nearly no midges though! Take care! C & J xxx

[Finding_Beau]

Hi Silvia and Sweet Oberon

I haven't checked ES for a very long time. I take the same approach as James. I have never given my dogs tick treatment. I have never allowed my dogs to run free in wooded areas and I keep them away from long grass. I give my dogs natural wormers and they have never tested positively for worms. My dogs very rarely get fleas. Misty did have a flea problem while she was suffering depression after Hobson's passing. I believe this occurred because of her compromised immune system. I wouldn't put any chemical on my dog's skin or in my dog's mouth, I wouldn't take myself. I have made too many mistakes in the past trusting vets. Fortunately, except for when she almost died from cancer at the age of 2 years and when she became ill after Hobson's passing, I've never had to take Misty to a vet. She is 7 years old now. In August she took off after a rabbit on our property and she damaged the tendon in her hind leg and ended up with a flat foot. This has never happened to any of my English Setters. Misty is slowly recovering with homeopathy and natural treatments. I've attached a photo of Misty a few weeks ago after I'd finished mowing. She was helping me. She still has a beautiful coat.I wish you all well. Take care of yourselves. Please give your Irish some hugs from me and English Setter kisses from Misty. I probably won't comment for a long time again. I'm still fighting the Commonwealth Bank in the Federal Court to stop them from stealing our home and making us all homeless. It's been a terrible 3 years. I hope we will all be safe again. Susan xxxx