Reasonable training expectations?

[Denis Philips]

Hi All,

First up, I’m wondering how well frequented and therefore useful this site is anymore. It’s a shame because there’s some great advice here from the past.

My wonderful intact male setter is 1 month short of being 2 years old.
He’s a generally well-behaved dog. We’ve done a lot of training with him, though perhaps not as consistently as we should have, but as much as life has allowed (no-one is perfect!).

One of the things we found with puppy training was how “blunt-instrument” the courses often were, trying to apply one-size-fits-all training techniques to all types of dogs, and was therefore maladapted to a hunting dog breed like setters. One instance springs to mind of having a class in the forest when he was about 6 months. The forest being a paradise of smells and distractions for him (which admittedly might have been the point), was way too overwhelming for an inquisitive, passionate young setter to concentrate on “sit” and “leash walk”.

These days his recall is pretty good and his leash walking is also pretty good. However, neither of these two most important facets are where I’d like them to be.

For example, our boy, in a field, if not in “hunting mode” (i.e. without a scent in the nose - we don’t hunt with him), will come straight back when called 5/6 times.
This is good. I don’t want him to come back 30 seconds and a quick last pee after he’s been called. That is, when he decides to obey. As much as we got a setter for their independent and fun-loving nature there are times when he just needs to do as he’s told.

However, if we are out and there’s a scent, a deer or even something simply more attractive than usual he is off to chase, explore, hunt. He will come back when called but eventually, not immediately and those intervals between recall and return are growing, even if only 5 or 10 minutes. Yet there’s a lot of trouble he can get into in those 5 or 10 minutes and he’s not “under control”.

I’m very aware that we have a wonderful, lively passionate dog with a still strongly present hunting instinct. If I wanted a robot I would have got a German Shepherd. Still, he is living in a domestic environment and needs to conform to domestic rules, not hassling smaller dogs, coming back despite a scent or another dog to play with, walking at my side (ideally without a leash, but loose-easy is fine).

My question then is, putting aside the old setter excuses of irascible, fun-loving, rascal, what are reasonable training expectations to make his life easier (knowing what he has to do) and ours.
Furthermore, if anyone has good training book recommendations  for training hunting breeds for domestic life, recommend-away!

Thanks community!

[Luna Buna]

Hi Denis,

Our Setter is only 15 months so it sounds like you have more experience than me but I thought it may be useful to share my experience, if only for a comparison.

Our dog is female and mostly a very obedient companion. Around the house she is a model dog. Clean, she has yet to steal any food although she does regularly steal item of clothing, socks, my sons dirty rugby kit etc. She sleeps well, on her own in the kithcen, and as long as she is well exercised, is great company around the house.

On walks she is probably the friendliest dog in the neighbourhood. Sometimes a bit too friendly as she hasn't quite worked out when other dogs don't want to play or when their owners don't want a big red dog doing the Harlem Shuffle at them until they give her a cuddle. Still, we can live with this. She does have a nasty habit of steeling other dogs balls and then running off and hiding them. She has gotten herself a reputation and this is becoming very embarrassing.

In terms of recall she is generally very good (unless she has just stolen a ball, then forget it). High quality treats help massively. We do choose to walk her in wide open spaces when we can, like the local racecourse or large farmers fields, as she loves to run. She will run off, given the room, in huge circles, chasing sky larks, pigeons, seaguls etc. Regardless of whether they are on the ground or 50 feet in the sky. When she is doing this, recall is tricky. She will eventually return when the birds have flown off or we walk on. We're used to this now and tend to go with it. We've noticed that the fewer times we call her back the more she notices when we do.

On more rambling walks (narrow paths, woodlands etc) she does have an annoying habit of straying too far. We have to make a continual effort to call her, so that she stays within eyeshot. She covers A LOT of ground, double, triple, quadruple that of any of our friends dogs (Labs, Workign Cockers). We've been considering buying a tracker, for piece of mind, to manage this.

She does jump up on people still, despite our best eforts to disuade her but she is getting better. This has caused much embarrassment. She also hates being kept still, on the lead. She will growl and bark if you stop and chat for too long when out with her on the lead. This also makes a trip to the pub after a long country walk problematic if you don't have a large chew or a pre-loaded Kong on hand.

On the whole she is well behaved for a young dog, if not a little bit too independent at times. Like you said. I wouldn't change her for the world. The pros of her loving nature far outweigh the cons of her slightly rebellious side.

 

[Denis Philips]

Thanks Luna, that’s a lovely reply. That sounds quite like my boy, too. Mostly good, completely adorable. Could do better. It’s why we love them, isn’t it for that « slightly too independent » character. 

Still, I’d like to know if my aim of tranquil leash walking and slightly more obedience is realistic?

[Denis Philips]

Hi Dave,

Thanks so much for sharing - exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. Very informative.

Yep, good recall when they want it to be. Any distraction, wasting your time. Everything you’ve said resonates.
My boy just turned two. He is already better and I keep gently working on reinforcing our bond. He does need to know who’s boss though - and I can do this nicely. 
I asked the community because there are so any people who train dogs and whose training is not well-suited to Setters.

Obviously I don’t know where you are based, but it was reassuring to see an English tv dog trainer, Graeme Hall (who is generally excellent) not exactly succeed with a 4 year old headstrong, male Setter.

So your answer has helped me enormously regarding « realistic expectations ».

I have a second question for you: Has life become « easier » for you and your big fella with a second dog around? I get the feeling my lad needs a playmate, or would do better with one. (We all want what’s best for our dogs. I’m probably being a bit idealistic.) They are so social.