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Over trimming or shaving of the Show Irish Red Setter?

I would like to know the opinion of all show people on the over shaving(trimming) of the setter? I was very surprised to see that trimming is actually mentioned in the AKC breed standard (coat section)"Trimming is done to preserve the natural appearance of the dog" How over trimming or shaving can preserve a natural look is quite puzzling to me!!!! I make my dogs as neat as possible for shows with a scissors or hand plucking but never put a blade near them!! I think that over grooming is quite the opposite of the natural appearance!! I believe over trimming/grooming makes setters look a bit like cardboard cut outs,not real dogs!!!!!!!!

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I dont think I would penalise a good dog for over grooming(as that is a matter of taste) but I would penalise a dog for excessive coat or incorrect coat texture(too curly or wavy)as they are part of the breed standard here in Ireland. I cannot comment on the AKC judging as in many areas the breed standard is different! But to penalise any dog(if correct as per standard)for good or bad grooming in my opinion is wrong! I may not like it but its the dog I'm interested in more than presentation!! That goes for handling too(another topic maybe!!)
I think that this isn't so difficult... It is when you ''put your hands on the dog'' that you should ''see'' what is under all that coat, and then judge that.(I am sure that I am teaching grandma to suck eggs) If the dog under the coat is good then you have the to make a decision, it is only when you have two dogs that are the same under the coat, it is then you have to choose between the 'natural' coat or the 'sculptured' coat, ah as they say 'there is the rub' rather you than me...Ah Carmel how many UK dogs have over curly coats??? And some have had top honers, I personally like a little bit of movement in the coat, perhaps it is wrong but the standard does say ''all feathering to be as straight and flat as possible'' That is a quote from breed standard as written in ISCS year book, it doesn't say 'must be dead straight' if it said that then there would be a lot of dogs (most) with incorrect coats.
I must say I find this whole discussion amazing!
I can not even get my OWN hair the way I want it...let alone my dogs...makes obedience training positivly easy!!!!!! :-)
Do they have "dry coats" for humans?
Could do with one...stick it on after your shower and emerge with the perfect hairdo after a few hours.
Just think of it: No more "bad-hair"-days!!!!! :-)
But we would not want everyone to have straight hair!!?? No breed standard for people;o))))
Come on Ursula we as the two legged side of the family, we don't count.
Just take the clippers to yours, and then you have the ''wash and wear look'' -------shave the head to about 1-1/2''------go to the shower-------come out and rub dry----you could use a little conditioner--------perhaps a stocking over the head afterwards would help....Do let me know if my methods work.
What about the colour is it as close to breed standard as possible------I am sure that there is a product out there that you could use, though make sure that it isn't tested by the KC, nothing too artificial and no one will notice, the one question is do you want the sculptured look or the natural???? If totally natural leave the stocking off!!!!........;o))
Very funny Dee;o))))
Dee I did say "too curly and wavy" ;o)) I dont mind a bit of movement (in my own dogs too!!) but yes I do know very wavy dogs with top honours and that doesnt mean its correct!! A friend suggested a particular dog as stud(one of the wavy ones) but I said I didnt want to add too much curls or waves to my dogs!! I go for stud dogs with less wave as long as they are correct as well;o)) Our breed standard states that body coat should be as flat as possible(as free from curl and wave as possible) and feathering to be straight and flat! I cringe when I see wavy feathering as it probably means a very wavy coat(which has been dried flat) Another reason I'd like to see dogs in their more natural state(no hiding anything then);o))
Carmel would this dog be one of the ''popular sire's of the moment''??? yes it is a sign of a profuse coat, but I think that it detracts from the dog, The natural look is what I look for, don't like the Sculptured look...and we have to go with what we like when choosing a stud dog, or the way we trim our dogs, that's what makes either of these decisions these days so difficult.
And Ursula can we have a before and after picture of the 'new look'????
Yes he is a popular sire and I know one of his sons too!!! But would not suit my girls(I would end up with curly coated retrievers!!!!);o)))
Wrong colour, well perhaps it would put the Golden back in the name.....
What, the stocking over my head?
I thought that was simplyfing matters!
I want more of a fluffy -good-hair-day-look...I thought you had been a hairdresser? :-)
yeh but that was in the 60's when I was a 'Yung Gal', perhaps one of those old fashioned swimming hats, do you remember them the rubber ones???? lovely.....;-))
If I can't give myself a good-hair-day how do you expect me to do that for anyone else, couldn't do it when I was a hairdresser, certainly can't do it now....why do you think I became a Bus Driver.....Perhaps the oil first then the wash and dry??? but it must be clipped off first...That will be £45 thank you!!!!! ;-))
Its good you know what my sense of humour is like ~EH~

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