Home for Irish Setter Lovers Around the World
Seems like there has been a lot of discussion - to me directly and on the site - on the recent removal of a certain member. Wanted to provide some context:
- This member was warned multiple times and had multiple complaints from multiple members over several weeks. They will not be invited back. There are no plans to invite any previously removed members back, either.
- I really don't care how knowledgeable someone is (there are tons of knowledgeable members still here). If they are a rude to other members, they are gone, like a cancer that needs removal. Not sure this is a lot different than any other Internet site. I frequent several discussion forums and when people post things that are inappropriate or rude or vulgar, the content and/or member are removed. Seems pretty simple to me.
- Moderation is tough, especially on a site I no longer use because people were rude to me when it started. If we don't moderate, trolls run off members. If we 'over moderate', then people leave because they can't have passionate discussion. People are going to leave either way. It's like death and taxes.
- With a site of this size, there is no earthly way you can please everyone. I remember being in a leadership position in college and noticed with a group of just 30 people, every single decision I made disappointed or upset someone...without fail. This site has almost 2,200 members. Whenever a choice is made to leave or remove someone, people will be upset.
- People who 'threaten' to leave like the site like they are some critical contributor whose departure will crater the site...please let me know if you have any problems doing so and I would be more than happy to help you! :-)
David McIlveen Wright had a great suggestion a while back that I think we need to consider - a Code of Conduct. Here's the example David provided. This is NOT an official Ning or Exclusively Setters Code of Conduct, but it has a lot of positives:
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To me, a lot of the above is common sense, but you know the old adage about common sense. Open to suggestions on improving the moderation process so it optimizes the communities enjoyment of this site.
I find this site addictive & keep checking up on it but I am afraid I think it is becoming more applicable to the pet owners & no longer offers much for the breeders. I think the recent advert for cross bred puppies illustrates this clearly. Don't get me wrong, I was brought up with a Jack russell X & he was adorable but I wonder what was wrong with this breeders Irish Setter or Collie that they weren't content with either. Surely they could of mated either to one of it's own breed . Maybe I am wrong & it was an accident & if so i apologise but doesn't sound like it.
I also enjoy the photos but do wonder why some people seem to upload every single image, why not just show us the best, funniest, cutest etc.
As an Irish Setter breeder/owner for nearly 40 years I would like to share some of my experience but regretfully I think the majority on this site think they know it all already.
Like several other UK breeders I will now just look at the site occasionally but rarely make a comment
I wonder whether one of the Breed Clubs or maybe the Bardonhill.com or Colin Waddell's site could tempted to add a forum to their very successful breed specific sites. I strongly believe that there is a need for public discussion between experienced breeders and enthusiasts, with a view to educating us all. I always thought so, even before I found ES.
Although I'm not terribly successful in the show ring, I've been around for nearly 40 years too. I've never bred, but I'm interested in hearing experiences from the ''big breeders'' because I'm interested in the breed. There's such alot to learn and I for one need a forum like this to hear the sort of information I'm interested in.
I have never breed dogs, I have only had two setters and I spend lots of time on this site. I thank everyone for replys to my questions, the first day I went on this site I started learning so much, for this I thank you all.The knowledge of the breeders is wonderful, but it is also good to read how owners have dealt with problems. I am not after free information, I have a very good vet,The knowledge from owners and breeders alike is priceless "HOME FOR IRISH SETTER LOVERS AROUND THE WORLD" Is this not us all ?
Hi Camilla. Very well said. I agree with you 100%. Kindest regards. Andy
Hi Jane. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought the site was for anyone with an interest in Setters. It is called Exclusively Setters and not Exclusively Setter Breeders. I am just a pet owner and have owned Irish for well over 30 years. Without the pet owners we would need very few breeders. In my opinion a pet owner is every bit as important as a breeder, in fact more important. Would you like to see Setter owners banned from this site? Would that be the best moderation?
You also say "why not just show us the best, funniest, cutest etc". If a person uploads an image, they think it is a cute, funny or in some other way a good image. We all have different opinions about the images posted here. Have a look at the pictures I have posted as I must be guilty of posting images that are not cute, funny or the best, but I am proud of them all.
I did not see the advert for cross bred puppies, but that should never have been allowed on here. Moderation should have blocked it.
The breeders have a wealth of knowledge between them and it is a shame if you and others no longer wish to comment or are no longer part of this group. Although I am just an owner, I do have some knowledge of the breed, but would like to learn more from the experienced breeders.
Hi Sue. I have respect for many of the breeders and I have always said that. Most are helping to improve the breed. I also say breeders need pet owners as much (if not more) as pet owners need breeders. Setters need both owners and breeders to continue. Supply and demand. If for any reason setter owners changed to a different breed, setter breeders could not continue breeding them. Obviously that will never happen as setters are the best breed of dog.
Cross bred puppies should never be advertised on here.
You say,"This site is fast becoming a no go area for breeders and we are losing all that wisdom and experience". I do agree with that.
Kindest regards. Andy
Camilla, I will very saddened if this group ceases to be a place where experienced breeders have have good discussions. I've been on internet groups since the 1990s when the first setter groups started , and have to say that for the level of intelligent well informed discussion about setters this has until now been the very best group of all. It has also helped that this list is able to separate topics, and leave personal items of news to go on members personal pages. So the discussions dont get swamped by trivia. I really like it that way, when I come on to this group , I tend to look just for the topics that look like they will produce good discussion or good information, and leave the rest, just dont have time to read it all. And its these topics where the experienced breeders are mostly to be found. Its fine that we dont all agree all of the time, but until recently its been civilised and tolerant
Personally I am really grieving that Eva has left, she became somebody I came to know through Exclusively Setters and now regard as a friend and source of good advice when I need it. It doesnt matter that sometimes we see things differently, I can still appreciate, respect and value her decades of experience and knowledge. At least we can still talk on the phone
I remember around ten years ago something similar happened on the American working gundogs list, at that time the best working gundog discussion group in the world, there were arguments between experienced trainers/breeders and relative newcomers to the field of working dogs, eventually the more experienced trainers and breeders simply removed themselves to another closed group, from which novice owners/trainers were excluded. And how much duller the original group became without them. The excellent Canine Genetics list founded by John Armstrong went the other way, only a minority of more distinguished members are now allowed to post freely, the rest are moderated, which has stifled debate, and many have gone to another group.
It really is worthwhile to keep the experienced breeders, the not so experienced and the pet owners together , the old and the young, the working people and the show people. We all lose when some leave or are silenced or excluded. Those who feel they have "won" when somebody leaves or is excluded - you havent, you have lost something. A discussion isnt a fight where one person wins, and another loses, its about being able to put your point of view, and be listened to, and then let somebody else do the same. Some people will learn and change, others wont, it doesnt matter, thats just how people are.
Hi Camilla. Again I agree 100% with what you have said. I believe that Setters are a 50/50 partnership between breeders and pet owners. Not sure if I was right or wrong, but the way I read that post made me feel inferior because I am a pet owner and not a breeder.
I have the upmost respect for you as a breeder and owner and I also respect many other breeders. I will miss the input by you and other knowledgeable breeders.
I understand the reasons you and others have taken a step back. I have seen the gang warfare on here and I hated it and hate the results of it too.
Kindest regards. Andy
No of course i don't want setter owners banned, in fact as a breeder i am much happier to sell to a pet owner as to a show owner as I would hate an exhibitor to be disappointed in their choice. Likewise where would the pet owners go for a quality puppy without the breeders with the breed at their heart
In regard to the photos, it is just my preference that i don't see( & here I generalise) mitzi about to have a drink, now having a drink, now licking her lips after having a drink.
As regards to the cross bred litter it surprised me there was not reaction