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Reading the Irish Setter breed standard which states:


On head, front of legs and tips of ears, short and fine; on all other parts of body and legs of moderate length, flat and as free as possible from curl or wave. Feathers on upper portion of ears long and silky; on back of fore- and hindlegs long and fine. Fair amount of hair on belly, forming a nice fringe which may extend on to chest and throat. Feet well feathered between toes. Tail to have fringe of moderately long hair decreasing in length as it approaches point. All feathering to be as straight and flat as possible".


it seems that a large proportion of the IS's have very wavy if not curly coats; not that I have anything against that but we seem to be getting away from the breed standard?  I understand that coat is only a small part of the important make up of these beautiful dogs and conformation is more important.

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No, I don't! But I do see that you have a way of being controversial ! In fact, this has been noticed by most of us 'oldies' of ES!

So forget coats .....and lets go to feet and the trimming of.......

Would one of the people who likes to goad successful breeders/judges happen to be me by any chance Mel?

Well, let me defend myself...

Perhaps you should read through the discussion again and you will find that the only person who was 'goaded' was infact me........by no other than 'Saint Eva' herself.....and let me see now....is she not one of those successful/breeder/judges you hold in such high esteem??



I agree

I too have been the victim of nasty e mails via the ES site. I objected to a comment placed by a member from the USA, totally slating the European style of presenetation and being damn right derogatory. When I challenged this persons rudeness, and may I add a person who had only ever owned 2 Irish Setters and had never bred a litter in their life, they became insulting and threatening. An extremely nasty comment was left for me but the perpetrator chose to leave the site, before I feel others she thought would read her nasty remark. Luckily for me another ES member from the states did read it and he was appalled.

Now I adore all my Irish and my American/Australian line Gordon :-). But there is one thing I can assure everyone of is that there is a lot of nastiness on both sides, there is just as much derogatory and eye rolling at dog shows from the American style of setter exhibitors, when the European lines win, as there is any other. 

Although not a member of facebook I have read an unwarranted comment from an exhibitor  of the American style setter when an European setter was awarded Best Of Breed, at the end of the day it was the judges decision.

I have a combination of both lines in my kennel and love my little USA/Australian line girl just as much as I do my Swedish rascals. What really does upset me is the horrible attitude some have towards others and what a horrible example we are all setting for the poor pet owners on this site. Firstly we should all be concentrating on sharing information in regards to grooming, health and general setter care instead of becoming focused on just the show ring.

I am sure that I will annoy some on this site but I do not care. At times I feel it is those that claim to love the breed who will be fundamental in destroying it.

Call me ignorant but what is a PM is it a 'personal message' I don't know what makes some people think that they can make rude comments to others...I find that I am 'shot down in flames' by some here. when it actually doesn't have any connection with what I was talking about....I think it is done just to make these people fell that they are Superior. to us lesser (they think) mortels...why can't people either agree or dissagree...without nastiness a lot of people are no longer here in ES because of the 'bitchiness' and 'back biting' as I have said before...we all state that we love these dogs...for goodness sake please try and comment without the roodness...you know it is kind of ignorant if you can't say anything without being rood...

At the start of this site the comments used to be for and against Hunting...that was fine...heated yes but ultimately fine...

Now its about US v EU come on they are all IRISH SETTERS and there is good and bad in every type...

Michell love your dog...Joanne love all of yours and everyone else Love them they are all setters...that is what we are here for...

Please stop all the rood remarks to people...you don't have to get 'one up' on the next person...

The problem is that some on here don't even realise that they are being rood...they think they are the only ones that know, and we should 'learn' from them...and only them, so putting their point of view over is all that matters, and if we don't agree with them we are very wrong.. well perhaps some of us may know more than they imagin...



Well said!

I do hope that your dog gets a clear for RCD4 I only hope that we can do the same here in Irish...but after the pain of having a dog that is now virtually blind myself, I suspect that it won't be so amicable...shame we should all work together with these problems...a friend has Gordon's and she is awaiting the result for this problem...as you say there are many carriers/affected out there, and people with clear dogs should be consoling these pore people and their dogs that are affected...Good luck with that...and I do try to keep out of these discussions because of being ridiculed by others...I have my own opinions on things, rightly or wrongly but I am intitled to them, I and no one else should be shot down just because we don't agree with someone else...I hope that I have been polite in this discussion, I admit that I did get angry at someone trying to tell me basically how to suck eggs..not nice...and we are her to learn not just from a couple of people...the more information we get the better..,even if others don't agree with it..
You are lucky that the Gordon people rallied round and have found the marker for Rcd4 as I said I hope this can be translated into Irish...I think some were tested, not sure if my girl was one of them...as her blood is at the AHT so suspect that they could have tried it with her and others...not sure what my girl has but her sister and cousin have it too...and she is now virtually totally blind in her left eye and only sees a little out of her right...but she still gets around well...frightening me when she goes into the forest though...just in case she can't find her way out again...(too many trees for me to go in after her) I do hope that your results are OK though...
I agree with you Camilla
Back to the original title wavy or straight coats. I love both and both have their merits. I prefer just a hint of a wave, I personally think it adds gloss and character to the dog. I do worry more about the loss of the beautiful colour on our beloved Irish. Some dogs exhibited in the ring are a dull orange colour and again not to the standard. Where is the lovely deep colour and fundamental feature of the breed going. Maybe this will open up another debate ?.
If it does open a debate...you had better get your bullet proof vest on!......lol




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