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Just out of interest, I have just been looking at the inbreeding coefficients of some of the litters currently available and have discovered that many of them are way over the breed average of 13.4  one litters coefficient is way over 25.

I am wondering if breeders are bothered that they are producing litters with these results? If not can somebody please explain to me, as a Setter pet owner why this is so?  If I was currently looking for a puppy, these kind of results would make me look elsewhere.

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This is interesting, thanks for going to the trouble, John!


Now if I dare take these findings and suggest (purely a hypothesis) that we may expect to a similar distribution in percentage of 'Affecteds' in dogs with higher COIs when we look at dogs with Epilepsy or GDV?

My concern with epilepsy is due to the fact that I have encountered the problem in my breeding. 


Very interesting figures, thanks for posting them

And the corresponding data for Carriers is - ???

Pat, there wouldnt be such a strong correlation for carriers. As rcd4 is a recessive gene , it takes two carriers (or affected) to produce an affected dog. Its when one starts doubling up on the same breeding that the genetic problem is expressed in affected dogs

To give an example, if a popular stud dog who is a carrier or affected is used on  unrelated bitches who are not  carriers, the matings will produce carriers with  a lower COI. But when one starts to double up on the descendants of the popular sire, thats when the COIs start to rise and the affected dogs start to appear

Very interesting. Thank you John.

Allow me to re-activate this discussiion as it is where I have already given my views. I did not want to join in on Ann's new blog as I felt we were going over the same points again that we have gone through time and time again and I am feeling these discussions are going no-where. Those that don't want to learn never will.

But, seeing as my name cropped up, I will add my reply here.


Torie was critical that a few dogs over the past years had been responsible for a large number of puppies. Some people see no problem in this providing the dogs are good sires and pass on the best attributes. Is this assumption correct? I think from all that has been written in this blog and if you look up the links provided here, then surely it should be clear to all, be they breeders or pet owners, judges or simple dog lovers, that it can NEVER be a good thing if a handful of dogs have sired over 2000 pups over recent years.

Untrue? Look it up on Mate Select.

Well written Susan and I think your assumption might be correct

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/ its the UK Kennel Club site to check COI, health results and breeding stats for an individual or for a prospective mating. 

I dont understand your question, Greg? Mate Select is an excellent online service run by the Kennel Club where one can get information about the COI's of individual dogs or hypothetical matings, the number of puppies a stud dog has sired, health testing records on individual dogs and their progeny, siblings etc.

As far as I know, the system was designed by geneticists at the Animal Health Trust working for the KC, there was much discussion about it when it first started, and is still being modified and improved eg the number of generations used in calculating COIs is being increased , I believe?

To help in further understanding the effect of inbreeding in different breeds the

ANKC is making data available to Dr Frank Nicholas of Sydney University for

research into this area.

The ANKC will be educating breeders on COI (Coefficient of Inbreeding) and how

it can be utilized in their breeding programs. ANKC 2009

Pedigree analysis for all ANKC registered breeds The University of Sydney is assisting the ANKC by conducting research on inbreeding co-efficients of pedigree dog data bases provided by the ANKC Ltd. Early reports show that the level of first degree inbreeding is less than 5% across the breeds studied so far and is considerably lower in many breeds. The ANKC Ltd is looking forwards to ongoing collaboration and assistance from the Genetic Department at Sydney University. To address this ongoing process will require funding from the ANKC.

Currently from the ANKC website. It seems that they are placing some importance on it Greg in an ongoing way.




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