Group judge chatting to eventual group winner before judging has even started??

[Carmel Murphy]

Would like to hear the opinion of show people on the scenario of breed judge(FCI (cacib) show) who has just awarded BOB to exhibitor and is happily and publicily seen chatting to the person before he judges the same person in the group and awards this person group 1 ??? Personally I think this very inappropriate!!!!!!

[Ossian]

I dont think I cricized her for her choice of dog!

[Ossian]

Eva to say that the majority of people who, as novice judges, went for the "safe" option is really a sweeping generalisation and unfair to many many up and coming judges who are trying very hard to learn their craft!

[eva ciechonska]

You did say that the judge's choice was a foregone conclusion. It implied criticism.
To answer your second point - the 'safe' option is nevertheless, a fact of life and I have seen it happen more times than I can count. It is really nothing to be ashamed of, it is part of the learning curve. Confidence is what enables a judge to place the dogs in the way they would like to. Confidence comes with experience and experience is what teaches. It focuses the eye. No exams, assessments etc, though they are valuable as a back up can take the place of experience. You are learning all your life and it doesn't stop when you are passed to award ccs.

[danielle rowles]

I've held my breath and sat back and read all the comments and have decided to add to it a bit!
Firsly I am very new to the world of showing having only just started in December, it took a long time before I finally decided to go into the ring because I already knew what it could be like. The first example I saw of ring behaviour that put me off was catching up with a friend with IS who had their dog entered in Crufts but said they knew they would get placed because of the judge picking dogs that had their line in, and they went on to pick out of the catalogue which dogs would be placed, so I must admit that put me off for a while.
Having finally gone into the ring with my own bred boy, there are several things that I find myself getting fed up of hearing, one of those things (and I also hear thing from people I know with other breeds) is being told to make a list of judges which don't place my dog and not to go under them again, a) in my eyes he's still only a puppy and by the time I come under that judge again he will have matured, b) since I dont get place much if I follow what people say I wont be showing for long!! The other thing is people saying that they are only going to a particular show because either the judge has placed them before or told them that they really like their dog/bitch and should go under them. The final thing is something that upset at a recent show while in the bitch class, after the judge had watch everyone move and gone over them all I noted how much the judge was looking at my face rather than at my bitch, I was looked at at least 5 times before placings were made and I remember being there with my girl thinking will you please look at my dog and not me!! I guess that it what you get when you are already one of those people who puts your head up and smiles, you notice what the judge is doing!! I'm lucking enough that my ringcraft classes are held by people who own, show and breed IS. Regardless of placing I enjoy it!

On a lighter note, despite being placed very very rarely at CC shows I still have a great time when I go, this is due to having made so many wonderfull friends outside of the ring, (having plenty of wine!) and I always remember that actually being in the ring itself is such a small part of the whole day, being placed is a bonus and one that I am always over the moon with, but, as the saying goes, for me, I'm taking the best dogs home, and in my eyes there are the best, espically when they are wet and muddy and having fun!!!

[eva ciechonska]

When I was in the States donkies years ago the friend I stayed with showed at the ISCA Speciality which was held in Massachusetts that year. I went to a talk given by a professional handler on how to present your exhibit to the best advantage, which included 'tricks of the trade' to fool the judge. Very interesting it was too. A professional handler will always be better at it. To beat him you have to be better at it then he is. Incidentally that year all the top honours went to owner-handled dogs.

[danielle rowles]

I compleatly agree, got to be in it to win it, as with everything, I'm not letting any of it put me off, at the end of the day I enjoying going and if I get placed then its a bonus!

[eva ciechonska]

Cannot remember that far back. There is no reason to suppose that I was any different to anyone else. I do remember having serious nightmares about it. But I have seen it happen on numerous occasions and even had it said to me by a novice judge that they wished they had done something else. But hey Susan, have you never done something you have regretted in your life? For heavens sake if you are all accusing championship judges of being 'facey' how can you possibly think that novice judges aren't.

[danielle rowles]

I have to say I find Open show's at lot less "facey" than Champ shows, maybe this is because you dont get the big winners going or maybe its because the judge normally judges several breeds??? But certainly all my rosettes have come from open shows, and I'm never placed high enough for a rosette at champ shows, just for card, but they still go on my wall with pride!!!

[Carmel Murphy]

Tania this was never intended to put novice handlers off showing!! My first show dog is an Irish Champion(11 green stars) and we were completely unknown;o)) My discussion was more to do with behaviour of those exhibitors and judges who only put up dogs whom they are very chummy with or are in the "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" brigade!! Unfair judging and bad behaviour was more the topic!! I very much intend showing and enjoy it very much but will still vote with my wallet and avoid giving an entry to judges who exhibit blatant bad behaviour!! So keep going and you will do very well;o))

[Carmel Murphy]

I love the way discussions branch out in different directions!! No apology necessary!!!!;O))

[eva ciechonska]

Susan.....I don't think you are listening, I have experienced this. I have had it told to me. How much clearer do I have to make it. As for me well why does it matter to you whether I have or have not. Whatever I might or might not have done there would have been someone watching who would have found a reason for why I did what I did. If you think that my comments are incredulous then I reiterate....why accuse championship show judges of being facey and expect novice judges not to be. This is the whole subject of this Forum discussion. Go through it and see. Anyway if you think that I took the latter option then I am sure you are right. Only natural. He who has never made a mistake has never done anything.

[eva ciechonska]

Hey ho Susan.....I think you are telling porkies. I think you have already had a bottle of wine on your stoep. I think one more and you will most certainly be gazing up at a cloudless sky with miilions of twinkling stars. Just make sure someone covers you for the night....we don't want you catching your death!!!!!!
Enjoy.............