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You are so right Finn....it would make any decent person baulk.
I expect you will get a reply telling you how essential 'incest' is to the breed...after all, don't forget, the breeder who wrote the comment got a CC and BOB from a brother/sister mating so that must mean it's ok!!!!
IF you insist on quoting at least get it right!
Finn, I posted about doing brother/sister matings - 2 to be precise. I do not feel obliged to explain the whys & wherefores but as you are "angry" I will. Not something I would do normally but there were highly unusual circumstances & years before AI was used in dogs.
The bitch flatly refused to have anything to do with the several stud dogs we presented her with over several seasons, only flirting with her litter brother owned by the breeders. As we are not into forcible matings (dogs or goats) & after much discussion with our vet, the breeders, & a breeder in the UK - which took several months - we went ahead & mated the pair. We had 8 beautifully healthy puppies with superb temperaments & oustanding personalities as we had expected with their their UK lines (both grandsire & granddam imported). The bitch we kept was my "heart dog" until her death - & she also was a successful show girl, amongst others winning the Bitch ticket & Reserve of Breed under Jimmy James of Wendover when he judged here was the highlight... She subsequently had litters to other stud dogs without turning her nose up at them LOL!
As for the goats - I do not mate son to mother all the time LOL! But if the parents are really good examples of their breed I will do it to "cement" those characteristics into the offspring. It works, & people who breed farm stock will understand why.
With close matings such as the above one has to really KNOW the lines behind each animal - much burning of the midnight oil & discussions with other breeders. One must also cull rigorously - anything not measuring up to my high standards is not used for breeding - puppies sold as pets & goats sold as pets or meat (they are South African Boer goats, developed for meat.)
I hope this clears up any misconceptions you may have had, Finn.
i think the same finn
brother and sister than you cat all soo all the bat what is in the line back
no line is clear from everthing
For your information the bitch that I bred and her puppies that are affected have COI of 14%.
I don't consider that to be high. We realise now that there are many carriers out there and with a wide range of breeding- it only takes two to come together sometime to create affecteds.
It is extremely unhelpful and hurtful to insinuate that we have done something wrong when we didn't know about this problem.
There have been a some discussions on ES in the past where I have been so horrified at the tone of discussion that have have walked away for a few weeks.
This particular subject (obviously) concerns me so I don't feel inclined to leave it.
Just please take a moment before you write to consider whether your comments will hurt others.
I think that the overwhelming majority of viewers of this forum have felt that you were desperately unfortunate, Deb., and have profound sympathy for all who are in this situation. I don't know you and am moderately hard-hearted but cried at your posts.
I'm not a breed expert but have had fine irish setters for 25 years and in almost every case where I've looked into the pedigrees of affected dogs it's been noticeable how widespread the breeding stock have been, in at least one case with totally unrelated sire and dam lines. It's 2 throws of an incredible complicated set of dice and sometimes comes up double-six. And the dice being as they are, with many of these dogs, the possibility of one late life problem will be balanced by being 'clear' of others that could be even more devastating but not tested for yet.
I don't think the in-breeding arguments should be posted in any of these lopra threads but treated as a separate issue for another time.