Problems with hunting setter lovers?

[Michaela]

There are some people on this plathform wich seem to have some problems with hunting in general and specially with my pictures of duck-hunting - I have read the comments between Frances McKimm and Susan Morris - also some comments about the video of Petra.

When I startet to be member of "Exclusively Setters - Home for Irish Setter Lovers Around the World" I thoughted this would be also for Setter-Lovers which understand the setter as a hunting dog - I undestand me as setter-lover!

But I if I read the dialog (comments) between Frances and Susann I felt not very welcome on this site with telling hunting stories and showing hunting-pictures. Why I'm not worthy to be a Setter-Lover or Setter-breeder if I show some pictures of hunting with my setter? So I started to think about if it is better to open a new NING only for setter lovers which can accept the setter as an hunting dog - for pointing and versatile used hunting-dog.

On the other side I think it would be a shame to go on with seperating here at Exc.Setters the Setter-Lovers in Hunting and Non-Hunting-only-Showing - it would be poor for each side to do not know from the other side - it would be poor for the race also ..

I think to seperate the hunting ones in a special Ning would not be the solution - I hope - so hwo can we solve the problem?

This are my thoughts - sorry - also sorry for my bad english, I hope you understand what I want to express

[Carmel Murphy]

Sound like lovely traditions!

[Michaela]

Thanks for your 2nd Welcome - and yes I want to stay, because I understand Exc.Setters like you have written:

Home for ALL Irish Setter Lovers Around the World

I was a little bit disappointed about the comments between these 2 members - but now they have removed their comments - ok

I have one demand: if someone have a problem with a picture showing death game - please contact me DIRECTLY .. maybe I can show it only for hunting friends or remove it from this site - it is not the problem for me

I think it is not a good behavior to do that behind so.'s back.

I'm glad to be part of this setter-loving-community - and I want to going on with this to learn from each other.

Thanks for participation on this discussion.

[Carmel Murphy]

I think this is what this site is all about!! All people who love setters(all varieties) and to share what we do with our dogs, some do hunting, agility, obedience, showing or like thousands of people in the world who just have these beautiful, funny, lively, intelligent, faithful dogs as companions(I could not live without them:o)) And discussions are a healthy part of this even if it gets a bit heated at times(guilty!!) But never intended as personal;o))

[Michaela]

Dear Frances, thanks for answering.

I copied your comment on my pc before you delete it - you wrote to Susann the following citation:

"......Oh well takes all sorts to make the world, but disgusts me that this sort of thing is accepted on a Irish Setter lovers site - but to note that the people who accept this behaviour are not breeders, and anyway to be a hunter and kill for nothing you need to have an rather odd way of thinking! Did you see the photo of all the dead ducks? What's the point? and where is the fun? in hunting this way....."

this seemed to be a anti-hunting comment - maybe I did understand something wrong .. sometimes my english is not so good, sometimes it come to missunderstandings because of the foreign language .. than please forgive me .. but it is difficult for me to align your answering here in that discussion with your written comment to Susann (citation above)

[Monika Sliwinska]

ehhhh .... like POLISH POLITICS..... you said that...he said that...I recorded all you said...i copied all you said....
.....and that is why I came to the UK :)))

[Christiane Lohmann]

Frances, would you like me to come and roll you on the correct side and treat you with a little green twig as well ??? ;-)
But I am unsure what hornsignal would be needed, so you better stay...

[Wilko Jansen]

i like showdogs, i like to see setters do their original job, i like the irish as a companion and i always say: do something with your dog, something they like.
what i don't like is that people think that a setter is a HUNTING dog. i hope you understand what i mean with hunting.
i don't like to see pictures with setters with dead animals in their mouth.
i like to see a setter, setting, pointing specific birds! that is where they were made for. there are other dog breeds for retrieving, killing.
i sometimes wonder if one knows something about the history of setters. and yes in irish setter type differs in field trial and show lines. i can live with that.
i have seen in the seventies setters and pointers hunt at the hills at groesbeek in the original way.
i learnt there the slogan: FOEIIII HAAAS.

i have heard and read the stories of the field trials in the UK.
i had also some years ago the privelige as chairman of the club to follow at the side of the late rembrandt kersten at a field trial. i enjoyed that.
i can imagine how it feels to make a point, to get a qualification at a trial.
i can also imagine how it feels to win a strong class at a dogshow or better to get the CC.
i like the feeling to have dogs in the house that understand everything. intelligent, nice, healthy. dogs that give you love.

but for me the pictures that were discussed here are not a good promotion for this lovely breed.

[Christiane Lohmann]

How sad;-(((

Have you ever read the "Early Survey of Setters" ?
Have you met Doggie Hubbard and talked with him about the 'real' oldtimers ?
How about the great irish famine, when IS were best fowling dogs ? CATCHING pheasants that were caught with glue traps...

The idea about ONLY "run, find and point" came with field trials late 19th century. Travelling became more easy then. But these trials are only a competition. Some purists said, that retrieving would spoil the nose, as the game then is too close to a dogs nose. But these people are rare and more pointer focussed. Especially the Irish setters have always been more versatile and known for great jobs in water.
Being descendents of the big landspaniel, it comes naturally that they also love to do a spaniel like job, when given the opportunity.

Strangely I recently thought that IRWS are even more resembling spaniels in their way of prey drive and characters. But this is off topic.

What I would like to know is, could you give me some sources about setters NOT being ment to retrieve game ?
You might know that I run the archive of germans pointer and setters club and have a fairly good library. I could only find statements about setters being true hunting dogs....

P.S.: About Foei Haaas...
Chasing a healthy hare is always a deadly sin ! Be it a show dog, a field trial dog or a hunting dog !

[Monika Sliwinska]

Be fair - just try to look from different points of view - for some people all you have had written is sad...

[Christiane Lohmann]

Monika, I do my very best to understand different points of view. But I fail ! Why does it make you or others sad ? WHAT makes you said in my postings ? I would be grateful for an explanation !
The fact that it includes dead animals ? In this discussion we are down to the roots and begin to even argue about the status of IS as hunting dogs. They are allowed as pets, as show dogs and - maybe...on sunny days out on green fields jumping round and sniffing for birdies ? (ok, I am provocative;-))) please excuse me) But somehow it seems to frighten some people to go back in history and find these red dogs always been sound gundogs ! And what does a hunter with a gun ? He kills animals. And what does he expect from his dog ? To help him in every way.
I have had many arguments with anti-hunting folks. They stand in front of me and bark at me that - you are female and should give birth to children instead kill animals...while they bite into a bread with salami. When I ask them, where their salami tree growns or if they expect the cow, which skin they have wrapped around their feet, has committed suicide, they have no answers to explain me their point of view.
I am afraid that we end up in a world with lots of poor animals locked up behind walls, so their life and death does not disturb anybody. And our meat will meet us safe and sound wrapped up in plastic...

[Wilko Jansen]

yes i have met doggie hubbard many many times, may many years ago. i bought many books from him and it was always a pleasure to meet him. i think i was his first dutch client.

[Wilko Jansen]

i have read many years ago :A survey of early setters published in 1985, written by that lovely, sweet man Gilbert Leighton-Boyce. died too young. gilbert made a long study of the history of the setters.
i have met him many times. in fact i sold his book over here to the lovers.on pag 99 ther is a nice old print of different coloured setters pointing the hidden birds.
yes and i have als met and known the there mentioned miss isobel somerfield who gave the picture free for publication.
and look at page 82