Playfull Puppy or Stressful Puppy???

[Petros]

We go for walks and there is nobody around but me. so he runs around and eventually comes back and circles around me barking, I growl back at him and try to catch him. otherwise he will be on my ankles with his teeth. But he eventually gives up or gets destracted by something around. He is 5 months old. Is it because he is stressful of all the things around and me giving him freedom? or he wants to play?

Have any of you experienced this?
I do understand many of you have more than one setter which may be helpfull but I have only one.

A week ago I was more stricked with him. demanding all the comands that I give him, not giving one slip up. putting him on a leash before he does something wrong. if he sits on a chair, take it over and sit on it. and all other things. and he seemed to be calm for that whole week. but know again he barks has started to dig the garden and when I am not there he gets away with it.

BTW. what sort of games do you guys play with the dogs. I do play fetch but he doesnt fetch, If i through a stick he will run after it but carry it around with him or lay down and chew it...
any other suggestions?

[colette tuite]

Petros, I feel very sad reading your latest experience with your puppy and i hope you dont mind if i make a few comments.Taking your pup out should be a good exerience for BOTH of you,it is also a good medium for strengthening the bond you should be forming with each other.You are the puppy's master so you need to give direction to your pup.
Firstly :- Does your dog know any commands like sit for instance.If it does , do you praise your pup for sitting when you give the command.That is the first step .Putting your dog in a position where you can give it a lot of praise.

Secondly,Dont ever give a command to your dog if you know that there is'nt the remotest chance of the dog obeying it .

Regarding putting the lead on your dog where he usually messes around,you can stop that by teaching him to drop flat down or sit and slowly approach him and quitely slip a lead over his head,again big praise.

Giving commands is not a negative thing. Your comment that you wanted your pup to enjoy itself so letting it go one and a half hour without any form of direction from you i am sure upon reflection you have discovered that this was perhaps an error on your part.That is ok as long as you learn something from this.That time should have been spent giving your animal specific tasks to do FOR YOU like coming back after 2 3 minutes or even 5 minutes dropping the pup or getting it to sit ,,hooking it up and giving it a cuddle and then letting it off again.Maybe making it sit and holding your hand out like a policeman stopping traffic and walking around your pup saying stay is also a command i have taught my dogs in the park.Again only do these exercises for maybe 30 seconds for starters and building up the time as the puppy develops.Only teach one command at a time so as not to confuse your pup.

Your walk with a 5 month old puppy was too long.Your pup when left to its own devices did'nt know what to do with itself.You have previously mentioned that you would hope the pup would work well .Have you given arm signals and perhaps run in the direction that you have pointed your arms at making a noise yourself to gain your pups attention .Their natural curiosity is usually aroused and most pups will follow you.Again you would be doing something with your pup, making it fun.

Try to finish on a good note.If your puppy has come to you or dropped or sat etc and you have been out 40 minutes then dont tempt fate.Put the lead on and be very effusive in your praise and go home.You will feel good about your experience and your pup will too!

I have been in a situation in the past having given my dogs over an hour run and approaching my car where i expected my dogs to jump in for their homeward journey ,most did, however, i sometimes had one or two renegades who thought it would be a good idea to explore an area i hadnt taken the dogs on,and i had to wait another 15 minutes or more before getting them back(this is particularly annoying and i would come home sometimes feeling furious).This was a fault on my part as i could have avoided the entire situation by calling all the dogs well before getting near my car and hooking them all up.The moto here is :-avoid putting your dog in a situation which may not have a good outcome.!

Do persevere with your pup but dont expect it to read your mind.You must communicate with it and preferably in a positive manner.Best of Luck!

[Petros]

Hahahaha... Colette you can blame me all you want and I know I deserve It. I wont make any excuses.
As you said

"Secondly,Dont ever give a command to your dog if you know that there is'nt the remotest chance of the dog obeying it"

That Is the reason why I left him without any comands, and just let him enjoy, but as I have seen and you have said it. he had no idea what to do.

To add to that. He does sit on command, and lies down. he knows "stay" but if the places are too interesting. "Screw PEtros I am off"

But I get what you are saying. and I did all that before,

when I call him back I wistle with my mouth. if he does not come, I run away, he chasses me.

Tho for the praise I have cut down so much, because after 2 strokes on the back he twists his neck and grabs me with his mouth. Its like the biting inhibitation that I tried to do when he was little Didnt work.

[colette tuite]

Ahh Petros, but did he enjoy himself , or was he just bored trying to kill time????

[colette tuite]

Petros,Have you tried rubbing his ears.I put the flap of the ears between my forefinger and third finger and lift my hands vertically upwards and then down, doing it very fast.As my right hand is going up the feft hand is going down and they usually love it.In fact you will probably hear him making a grunting sound! As you would have your hand on each side of his head that would also stop him mouthing.I sometimes put their ear in their own mouth and that also stops them mouthing.

[Petros]

hahaha... yes yes. just behind the ears there is like a little hole where the skull is joining with the spine. ITs where the slip lead slips in quite perfectly...

Tho he loves it when I rub him there. he doesnt make a noise but he lifts up his nose and moves his head to adjust where he wants to be rubbed.

he also loves when petted or scratced under his mouth on the throught.

[Petros]

you said the walk that I took was too long for 5month pup.

how long do you recommend the walks should be....

[colette tuite]

For a puppy under 6 months i would think that a 10 minute walk to the park 20 minutes free running and 10 minutes walk home is long enough.A lot of damage can be done to the hind quarters and hips of puppies if they get too much exercise too soon.

When the pup is 9 months increase his free running time to maybe 30 to 40 minutes.

Dont be tempted to take him for 5 to 6 mile walks as a puppy ,it is too much!c

[Petros]

No doubt about the digging and chewing, though the fetch part works ok for Achi, but as soon as I roll the tennis ball out of his mouth he jumps up on me to grab it, and its usually my arm that he grabs and thats when he gets all wined up to bite even more.

[Jennifer Martin]

There are some good pointers on this site: http://www.gopetsamerica.com/irish-setter/irish-setter-training.aspx
I agree with the advice you have been given but would remind you that he is still a pup and it is far better to teach through play rather than demanding he obey your every command, little and often is the key, you should be enjoying your time together, you have to teach him to 'fetch' and bring thing's back, make it fun. for the most part if you raise your voice at a setter they will bark back at you. Perhaps you are asking too much of him too soon, maybe he's just not getting what you are asking him to do. Try reverse psychology - when he growls and run's around you, stand still with your arms folded, avoid eye contact and ignore him, if he comes at you to nip say 'shhh' very loud, in fact I use 'shhh' with Rio, he only hears it if he's doing something I don't want him to do and the beauty of it is that you can't 'shhh' aggressively, remember to ignore negative behavior and praise good. Rio also likes digging the garden - they all dig - just wish he would do the weeding as well!.

[Petros]

hahaha.... there is alot of positive reinforcment in what you are saying of which I very much appreciate but Im sure as hell not going to implement the IGNORING part...

no offence but I would really like to see someone that would ignore the barking in 6am when my neighbours window of his bedroom is 20cm away from the dog.

Second thing.... As I said... I do play fetch, we did quite a lot of playing, when in the park or the beach I would get 5-6 sticks and through them around he chases one. he comes back and I trought another another and another.... its all fun and play but it is not working all the time./

as for the commands. he knows the basics, but I dont ask him very much...mostly for the reason of him being a pup. and giving him commands and not giving him commands at this point I havent seen any affect.

he gives me the full thril of having a first dog, no doubt.

[Jennifer Martin]

OK, so your not going to try the 'ignoring' - let's try something else!.. 'cos whatever your doing isn't working,
Rio did exhibit a little of this at a similar age!. The running up behind you and nipping is part of the 'herding' instinct, your reaction to the first few times he did it,- have possibly exacerbated his behavior, so, you know when you turn your back and walk away he is going to come up behind and try to nip you, you can either put him on the lead and get him to walk next to you before you get to this point , a great way to get his attention and for him to come to you - even before you call him is to squat down he will be over like a bullet, don't know why but some pup's will come then but ignore you when you are standing!, if you don't want to do this, then as he runs up , you just bend your knee and put your foot out behind you and say 'no' - this is not to kick but if he is presented with the sole of your shoe he ain't going to get near to nip, you could also try bending forward at the waist, spreading your arms making yourself 'big', when he run's in, turn towards him and either 'roar' or 'shh' not in an aggressive manner, just a warning, he will run around you but will not come into the space, have him change direction, back and forwards it then becomes a game and you have diffused the situation.
I would not recommend 'pinning' him down 'a' la' Cesar Milan, he is going through quite enough stress at this age after all he is teething, growing and his hormones are kicking in.

Some people use training 'discs' or pebbles shaken in a tin can to make a noise when the dog misbehaves, you could try a squeaky toy or ball, that is given as a reward for good behavior, make him work for it.

Rio very rarely barks so I don't have the neighbour problem but if you dog is running around the garden barking at 6.00am - possible solution - put him on his lead and take him for a walk.

There is a farmer who lives a mile away from me and all I hear is him shouting at his dog, I mentioned it in passing to my farmer neighbour and his reply was -' yes, he knows how to ruin a good dog!'.

Remember that the one thing your dog really wants to do is please you, also at the height of their popularity Irish Setters where one of the most abused and abandoned breeds, these dog's are slow to mature and at this age it's a bit like living with 'Tigger!', - a good book to read is 'Why Does My Dog Do That', if you want a happy well adjusted dog be kind but firm.

[Petros]

hahahaha... cesar millan, I dont think has helped me so far, probably done worse than I thought.
or I am doing things wrong.

Today I improvised. got a 3-4 meter rope, made a slip collar out of it. walked Achi to the park, he was fine with that. bit of pulling here and there, but mostly next to me. when he say the entrance of the park he couldnt stay in ne place but I made him calmly. got the rope out and put it on his colar so that its easier to catch him. and got a tennis ball and few sticks. I kept him busy around me for 20 minutes, no barking, no bitting. he was still very excited though. the i got the slip colar on back again, and walked him home. he is on the deck now. relaxing.

yesterday and all this morning he had the aggression back again, though I spent 5 hours in the crate out of the crate in the crate out of the crate.

As soon as he gets me with his teeth he gets the crate untill he is calm. I let him out, give him praize and cadles and he grabs again and he goes in the crate again, and so on for the whole evening and morning.