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...and if you aswer "yes, they are!!!" then how would you personally define intelligence in a dog?

I'm sure all have heard of the analysis done by Ben & Lynette Hart of the Veterinary School, University of California. Irish Setters were not considered the brightest... but I am uncertain how this research was undertaken.

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Je te remercie de ta réponse, Monique! Et comme t'as vu, il y a toujours quelqu'un qui peut aider aux autres de comprendre. Comme c'est un site internationales, je trouve bien si les gens eyssaie de participer aux discussions dans leur propre langue, il y a des gens (ou Google;-)) qui peuvent faire la traduction.

Tu as raison que ta chienne démontre une intelligence typique de la chasse: un jeune chien sans expérience doit apprendre lui-même quel est le meilleur façon d'arriver à son but. A mon avis c'est le maître ou le dresseur qui est responsable de faire attention que le but pour le chien est le même que pour le dresseur. Donc si le chien arrive à attraper un oiseau en sautant dessus, il sera de plus en plus difficile d'apprendre au chien de l'arrêter. C'est mon avis, mais je ne suis pas dresseur... maintenant aux dresseurs d'y répondre;-))

Tout procès d' apprendre se déroule sur cette voie de 'trial and error' (en français? - essaie et erreur?).
short translation: thanks to Monique for joining in - there is always someone around to translate. Hope this gives others the courage to join in in their own language.

I find it quite typical for a young dog learning to hunt that he will try differnt methods of approach to the game. It is a typical learning process and up to owner or trainer to see the dog learns the right thing! If he has success in leaping and grabbing it will take much longer to teach the point.

Learning is a matter of 'trial and error'.
Tu as parfaitement raison Susan mais c'était juste un exemple pour démontrer le raisonnement de ma chienne. Elle avait bien vu qu'en sautant sur l'oiseau elle ne nous avait pas fait plaisir et a donc essayé d'autres solutions. Elle utilise souvent cette démarche et nous la voyons parfois s'arrêter pour réfléchir avant d'essayer d'autres solutions.
Nos chiens ont également beaucoup de mémoire : chez nous chaque peluche a son nom et si je demande à mes chiennes d'en chercher une, elles reviennent toujours avec celle demandée. Mais à mon avis ce n'est pas de l'intelligence, juste de la mémoire.
You are absolutely right Susan but it was just an example to illustrate my bitch's reasoning. She had realized that we were not too pleased when she jumped on the bird and therefore tried different solutions. She quite often takes this course of action and we sometimes see her stop to think before trying something different.
Our dogs also have a good memory: at home every fluffy toy has it's name and when I ask one of my girls to look for one, they always come back with the one I asked for.
But to my mind this is not intelligence, just memory.
Est-ce qu'on peut séparer les deux: la mémoire et l'intelligence?

Is it possible to separate the two: memory and intelligence?
Interesting I had a Border collie and she was bright in some ways and dumb in others. She excelled in obedience and flyball but she was kind of dumb at home. My labrador Tara is bright but it took her forever to get her Grade One Obedience Certificate; it was more fun to play with the other dogs than to concentrate on mindless exercises. Conaign got his Obedience cerificate quickly. he was intelligent in all sorts of ways. We never taught him to point or set game yet on our bush walks he would always sett something interesting like apossum in a tree, and wait until we acknowledged his find before he would continue his walk. Once he sett a man whose appearance he thought was bit dodgy (He was a park ranger carrying a slasher to keep the paths clear.) When the kids tried to play hide and seek, Tara would dash about madly barking, following the scent and pulling them out of their hiding places. Conaign would find them through scenting the air and then he would point until the kid was found (they learnt to put Tara in aroom with a closed door)
Both dogs after my husband developed Alzheimer's and would take himself off for walks and forget where he lived would always bring him home. If Conaign wanted to go for a walk, he would fetch his lead off the hook and drop it in front of the person most likely to take him.
Not scientific and anecdotal but yeah, Irish setters are intelligent! Cheers, Vera
Four workers were discussing how smart their dogs were.

The first was an engineer who said her dog could do math calculations. Her dog was named "T-Square", and she told him to get some paper and draw a square, a circle and a triangle, which the dog did with no sweat.

The accountant said he thought his dog was better. His dog was named "Slide Rule". He told him to fetch a dozen cookies, bring them back, and divide them into piles of three, which he did with no problem.

The chemist said that was good, but she felt her dog was better. Her dog "Measure" was told to get a quart of milk and pour seven ounces into a ten ounce glass. The dog did this with no problem.

All three agreed this was very good and that their dogs were equally smart. They all turned to the union member and said, "What can your dog do?".

The Teamster called his dog whose name was "Coffee Break" and said, "Show the fellows what you can do". Coffee Break went over and ate the cookies, drank the milk, went to the bathroom on the paper, claimed he injured his back while eating, filed a grievance for unsafe working conditions, applied for Workmen's Compensation and left for home on sick leave.

I accidentally stumbled on this story on the net and remembered this thread instantly 
I guess its all in the eye of the observer.




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