Home for Irish Setter Lovers Around the World
Seems like there has been a lot of discussion - to me directly and on the site - on the recent removal of a certain member. Wanted to provide some context:
- This member was warned multiple times and had multiple complaints from multiple members over several weeks. They will not be invited back. There are no plans to invite any previously removed members back, either.
- I really don't care how knowledgeable someone is (there are tons of knowledgeable members still here). If they are a rude to other members, they are gone, like a cancer that needs removal. Not sure this is a lot different than any other Internet site. I frequent several discussion forums and when people post things that are inappropriate or rude or vulgar, the content and/or member are removed. Seems pretty simple to me.
- Moderation is tough, especially on a site I no longer use because people were rude to me when it started. If we don't moderate, trolls run off members. If we 'over moderate', then people leave because they can't have passionate discussion. People are going to leave either way. It's like death and taxes.
- With a site of this size, there is no earthly way you can please everyone. I remember being in a leadership position in college and noticed with a group of just 30 people, every single decision I made disappointed or upset someone...without fail. This site has almost 2,200 members. Whenever a choice is made to leave or remove someone, people will be upset.
- People who 'threaten' to leave like the site like they are some critical contributor whose departure will crater the site...please let me know if you have any problems doing so and I would be more than happy to help you! :-)
David McIlveen Wright had a great suggestion a while back that I think we need to consider - a Code of Conduct. Here's the example David provided. This is NOT an official Ning or Exclusively Setters Code of Conduct, but it has a lot of positives:
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To me, a lot of the above is common sense, but you know the old adage about common sense. Open to suggestions on improving the moderation process so it optimizes the communities enjoyment of this site.
Torie I am 30 pages behind for pictures, so we will be 2 to have belated comments :-) Making friends, learning about the breed, sharing our fears and joy, looking at pictures, it is so good to have have ES.
When I wake up this morning and surprise surprise ... it's raining :-( ... never mind, it is said it will be so until September, so to cheer me up when my boys are still asleep, I look at ES pictures .... and this is priceless!!!
However, to come back to Gene's discussion, do you think it could be interesting to consider closing a "hot" discussion instead of having people out? My concern is mainly due to the fact that there are definitely and very unfortunately - gangs. Closing a discussion could prevent ??? hopefully??? gangs to complain about the same person in order to have her/him removed, as well as putting Gene in this horrible position, having to read the discussion and then act upon. This would be a shift from people to the discussion itself. I know it will be a real pity but better than having a new victim in the hands of gangs, or having some ES members not participating or even leaving ES because they are tired of being insulted when they dare to share an opinion.
If a dog becomes nasty when having a bone, we would take the bone away, not "kill" the dog.....
HI Chantal.......it could be a option.
I do however think it would be like punishing all members because of a few.
As you know at the present time, members can gang together against members they want removed from ES by complaining to Gene. I think this is a very cowardly way to go about it myself and I would prefer to deal with the matter in hand than stab someone in the back who can't defend themselves.
My personal opinion is that the site should be self moderating. Gene has done his best and I am sure gets sick to his back teeth of some complainers on here.
ALL members should be given equal rights to vote someone off if they are causing real problems, not just a few complainers. That would be a fairer system all round.
I have never complained to Gene to have anyone removed it's not my style.
Torie I like your idea of a self moderating site. Not sure how it works though but I like the principle. Please do expend this idea, how could it be achieved and let see what ES members think of it. :-)
Chantal, I think the Code of Ethics should help .....also I am not quite sure how people could self-moderate though..... history seems to have shown, this was impossible...... hence Gene's intervention......
Hi Chantal. I love that quote "If a dog becomes nasty when having a bone, we would take the bone away, not "kill" the dog". That does just about sums it up. I thought this was a site for adults, not children, but not so sure now after recent events. Kind regards. Andy
Yes Andy, like you I thought ES was meant for adults .... but obviously adults do behave like kids sometimes :-(
So what can we do next?
Chantal on reply to your question "So what can we do next"?
We can wait for the troublemakers to read these comments and then sit back and wait.
They will blame everybody else as usual..........watch this space :))
Just keep putting up positive replies. About the site, your experiences and enjoying the positve posts, photos etc of others.
I did not know it had an age limit....I thought it was a site just to share stories of our Setters....we have some young members here as I remember....
Hi Catherine. You may be right, but it has been the so called adults acting up. If it had been the younger members, I could understand the childish behaviour. Kind regards. Andy
I rarely comment anymore because I often didn't feel "qualifed" to do so. I am not a breeder, nor do I show my dog. I just am a lover of the breed and have owned four of them. Gene you do a wonderful job and one I wouldn't want! I like the idea of just closing the topic if it becomes heated. It doesn't matter where you go in life, you will run into hostility, and you have to learn when to stop your fingers from moving in this case. Don't type back. It takes two to tango and if you don't respond to it, it will move on to another direction. I too love the FB setter forums because the people there are more like me. Many are just pet owners. We can share our neutered/spayed dog photos and I actually see dogs that look like mine! We enjoy the breeds antics rather than spending hours discussing conformation and such. Thank goodness for those of you here that do breed because without you and your efforts I wouldn't have an irish puppy. But it is nice to just be able to discuss day to day issues and enjoy the beauty of all irish setters.
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