Joint Irish Setter Breed Clubs - Statement on the control of the rcd4 mutation in Irish Setters

[Jean Lippett]

I've just seen this, announced 29th February, on the SEISC website,  here

I noticed this statement:-

'As DNA-testing is now available, ‘hereditarily clear’ dogs will be produced. However such dogs should still be tested before being used for breeding because of the potential difficulty in proving parentage.'

Would this apply to other DNA tests also?

[Jean Lippett]

Just think of the hoo-hah if your tested hereditary clear dog wasn't!

That would cast doubts on either the pedigree system or the DNA testing or both, and could cause ferocious unpleasantness with your dog's breeder.

If this was being asked for by the AHT or Kennel Club one would wonder about there being a financial motive, but as it's by the Breed Clubs that can't be the case.

[Angela Roberts]

I don't think this has ever been made official but I believe I read in a breed clubs newsletter that there was going to be a proposal that breeding stock should only be one generation hereditary clear before being tested again.  So if your hereditary clear dog or bitch produces a litter to a clear mate those puppies would need to be tested before being bred from.  However I don't know if that is going to apply to all DNA tests or just CLAD and PRA-rcd1.  I think eventually all breeding stock will have to be DNA profiled and puppies tested to confirm the parentage.  Would help to cut out the puppy farmers except for the ones who do not register.

[Susan Stone]

This makes me wonder if the UK is also slowly moving toward the requirement of DNA-profiling for all breeding stock?

Rather than inforce DNA-profiling a tighter control scheme of the testing may be considered a first step toward more control? DNA profiling & microchipping is already a requirement in various countries in certain breeds.

I wonder if this could be the explanation for the phrase 'potential difficulty in proving parentage'.

Germany and Switzerland require every second generation to be DNA-tested for CLAD and I don't think this is a bad thing. I am sure in some of the big kennels of the past (and present) it was not always 100% clear which dog (s) had mated a bitch and pedigrees were not always reliable. I am convinced this still happens in some kennels today, maybe not in the UK but definitely in some other countries... 

[eva ciechonska]

More and more breeders are microchipping their puppies.  If they DNA profiled all their breeding stock then there would be no need for this kind of statement.  I believe it is a good idea to DNA test subsequent generations but I think every second generation is a bit close.  Maybe every 4th.  It all boils down to trust and the breed clubs don't seem to trust their members if they feel we should be DNA testing our hereditary clears so soon after testing their parents.  I am 100% certain of the sire and dam of my hereditary clears so will be taking this with a big pinch of salt!!

[Jean Lippett]

Just to say that after posting this I found a similar discussion among the blogs so have a look there as well, if you haven't already.

[Ann Millington]

Interesting..... in the UK dogs have to have a microchip or tattoo number when DNA tested or eye tested and I agree that all pups should have this.

If both parents are CLAD or PRA clear ie. do not have 'the CLAD or the PRA genes' - how are their puppies going to get them, since they have to inherit them?

A mutation? If a mutation sparks off another variation of say CLAD or PRA, a new DNA test would have to be developed for it - the old one would not pick it up.

 

The only reason for re-DNA testing is if fraud is suspected........

[Susan Stone]

I'm not sure if that is always correct, Ann. When I had my dog's hips xrayed for scoring in the UK the vet  neither checked his microchip not did they write his regsitration or microchip anywhere on the xray. This meant I had to get another xray done to have him scored in Switerland because the UK xray was not accepted. Obviously I should have insisted myself but never thought...

Fraud? I'm afraid it does happen...

[Catherine Carter]

Susan,

Things have changed in the UK....now you need microship or tatoo number entered on the X-ray...I know I have just had Venus hip scored.

[Susan Stone]

Thanks, Catherin! And fingers crossed you have good news for Venus!

[Ann Millington]

Yes, things have changed ;o])

I had to negotiate with the BVA and with the KC to exempt 'old' IRWS from permanent ID because we just needed their DNA for PPC research, plus an eye test result for which a number is mandatory.

Many owners of old dogs had not had them chipped or tattooed and were not prepared to 'put them through it at this age'....so it was waived for us in this instance - research purposes.  But I'm pretty sure it is required automatically these days.