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Due to problems accessing the AHT website Dr Nigel Holmes has kindly agreed to extend the "promotional code" for the South fo England Irish Setter Club until 31st August. Unfortunately the original code cannot still be used so a new one has had to  be issued and will have to be obtained again from the SEISCwebmaster. The AHT apologises for any inconvenience caused!

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It was others (not me) who created the health problems in the first place by breeding dogs who were too closly related just to get something more pleasing to the eye and now the big problems are surfacing and will continue to until breeders change their ways of thinking and breeding!

It is very easy to sit on the sidelines and criticise.  Until you have bred a litter and with all due respect, you have not the faintest idea of the process and the outcome of having puppies.  Do you seriously think that we don't consider the health issues.  Do you seriously think that we deliberately go out to breed problems.  If we were that inconsiderate then we would be ignoring rcd-4 instead of pulling together and helping each other.  These genes occur as mutations and not by way of deliberate breeding.  How do you think breeders cleared rcd-1 and CLAD if not by dedication and rcd-1 was pre-DNA days. 

I reiterate, we need your support not your constant and unremitting denigration.

Can I please add....once again that the percentages you are giving are a text book guide.  They are not set in stone.   Breeding dogs is not like that.  Please re-visit my previous posting on this subject.

Jean, puppies from carrier/clear litters will never develop the condition.  That is the nature of an autosomal recessive gene.  If we only breed clear/clear litters it will reduce our already diminished gene pool and we might have very few lines left.  The fact that our top sire is clear is a huge relief to this breed.

 I can assure you ,my percentages did not come from any text book but did in fact come, from a specialist in dog genetics!.

That could well be true Val but in reality it can happen in all ways.  I don't want to re-write my previous comment on it so please look at it and subsequent comments from Sue Humphrey and Pat Aldridge on the same subject 

Percentages are based on genetic calculation and how you would expect the genes to fall.  They are not set in stone!!!!

Val's post said "I can assure you my percentages did not come from any text book but did in fact come, from a specialist in dog genetics!."

 

I believe these statistics are calculated over 100 pups, therefore, any litter may not represent the scientists/geneticists calculations as each litter can have a different make-up of the % of carriers; clears and affected, but it is expected that over 100 pups, the statistics will be accurate.

This is my understanding of how this works in reality:

Using the calculations for clear x carrier =        50% clear       50% carrier, the following is a simple example:  Litter A could have 80% clear and 20% carrier; but Litter B could have it in reverse with 80% carrier and 20% clear. Overall, the statistics are correct, but in individual litters, there is variance in the percentages. 

I believe this happened with the PRA test matings years ago (before DNA) where a test mating had all puppies healthy and not going blind, but subsequent litter had blind puppies.  Thank God we have DNA testing and do not have to go through the heartaches that our wonderful breeders of the past had to endure with breeding to identify carriers, etc.

Speak to someone who specialises in genetics and then come back to me and say "don't blame those excellent linebreeders"!!

With all due respect Val you would be the last person in the world I would come back to for anything.

The definition of an autosomal recessive disorder, which rcd-4 is, means that 2 copies of an abnormal gene must be present for the condition to be present.  The gene is mutated. 

We are not playing the blame game here we are trying to sort a condition which more than likely was produced by a mutated gene.  No witch hunts......remember.  Move on and as Susan Morriss said 'put up or shut up'

 

Hi Wilko

I cannot agree more...I have always gone for the dog that will compliment my bitch...

I also agree that there is too much...''we have never had anything like that in our breeding stock before...must have been something that you did wrong'' when you report a problem that has arrison in your puppies or from the puppy that you bought from them...

If it were not for line breeding some of these problems would not come to the for and become a real problem in future years....I have commented on COI...but....it doesn't stop problems it only dilutes them...

And again Wilko you are so rite that when you produce a 'lovely' litter then you can stand back and say to yourself.....''job well done''

Again it all comes down to honesty...and it is great that people are taking responsability in getting their dogs tested good for everyone who has done so..long may it last...we have a beautiful breed and we are just the gardians, and I think with this problem we are all doing the rite thing...

As this appeard under something I wrote...could I ask what it is about and what question I have not answered???...I really don't recal any of this???? And yes I do have difficulty in reading Dislexia is a big problem...sorry if I have ever offended you I am very sorry....
Am expecting to be ''bitten'' every time I come onto this forum at the moment..

little mistake of writing:

carrier x affected      50% carrier     50% affected

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