human friend's Page

Lets make things a little more active then, human friend. Why don't you tell us a little about yourself and your dogs, and maybe post a few photos!

we could start a dialogue if you tell us about your dogs and yourself !

Hi Human Friend, sorry for the delay in replying –work and home schedules kinda crazy lately!!

Re. whether or not there is greater type-variation among IR&WS than in Irish Setters, whilst I am not an authority on either breed, I would say that you may be broadly correct.  In my own experience to date, many working IR&WS tend to be somewhat lighter, smaller and with less coat than many specimens from show kennels which may have been selectively bred for ‘improvement’ in these and other aspects over a number of generations.  Whilst there isn’t supposed to be any appreciable difference between ‘show’ and ‘working’ dogs (indeed many good specimens regularly fulfil BOTH roles), and judges are supposed to evaluate show exhibits primarily from a working perspective, nevertheless, from what I have so far seen, many judges either aren’t aware of this or choose to ignore it, as some of the regularly-winning dogs show some physical exaggerations in being over-sized in body, head, heaviness of bone, length of coat and tail carriage, etc.. 

It seems likely also, that the greater variation among IR&WS can at least in part be attributed to the out-crossing with Irish red Setters which has been essential up to the present time in order to broaden the IR&WS gene pool. The differences in head shape, length of coat and overall impression of Reds (eg., ‘Racey’, compared with ‘Athletic’ in IR&WS), logically has to influence ‘type’ in out-crossed IR&WS, potentially for a number of generations, obviously depending on how well breeders select sound ‘typical’ IR&WS stud dog specimens to breed back to in the post out-cross generations, and of course allowing for natural variations in type (as with any other breed), which  occur despite the best efforts of breeders, and also the phenomenon of ‘throw-back’ individuals appearing sporadically in a litter.  Additionally, whether the variation in shade/intensity of the red ‘islands’ in the coats of IR&WS (eg., ‘Chestnut’ red as opposed to darker red), is in any way attributable to the out-crossing, or whether it has always been a feature of the IR&WS breed, I have so far been unable to ascertain.  The offical  breed standard (ie., from the country of origin: Ireland), specifies the essential coat characteristic of white predominating, with ‘islands’ or patches of red, but some individuals have a marked excess of red in the coat – as a long-standing breeder friend put it to me, “…the coat should have islands of red, not continents of it…”.

But hey, whilst it is obviously important for breeders and fanciers to strive for maintenance of type and general soundness in the conservation and furtherance of any breed (temperament and health notwithstanding), an ‘imperfect’ specimen can turn out to be as good, and possibly better, canine companion as any ‘stunner’ (as with humans, I guess J), even if it might be omitted from a breeding programme.  This answer to your question should not be taken as definitive at all, but I hope it might be of some help. Mike.

Did my response help at all?  Mike