Dangerous dogs

[Teresa]

I know this will be off our usual "setter topics", but I'd still like to hear your opinion as dogs owners.

We in Portugal have a list of "dangerous breeds" wich you have to castrate and have insurance and criminal records and so on. Most people are afraid of these dogs, and among the listed breeds are Rotweillers and PitBulls (not a single portuguese breed however...)

There have been some stories of Pitbull atacks and this week an 18 month old boy died after being attacked by his parents Pitbull cross. Now, the parents were the first toadmit they had no conditions to own the dog, and had tried to put it to sleep last year and for "some reason" couldn't.

The dog lived in a balcony during the day and slept in the kicthen. It seems the boy walked in the kitchen during the night, fell over the dog and then was attacked, but the story is not very clear. The boy did not survive his injuries and the dog is know being put to sleep, according to our laws.

Now media and social networks are on fire with this case, with people going to extremes for "dangerous dogs should all be killed or at least put in cages in the zoo" to "the parents are the ones who should be put to sleep".

I personally believe there are dogs with an agressive, but this is not common or breed related. And most agression cases are because of the way the dogs owners handled them and not because of their nature. I'd like our law to be changed in a way owners had actual responsability on their dogs actions...

I was wondering how this works in other countries, and how do people react in when these kind of things happen. What is you opinion on this topic?

[Rhonda Fisher]

Restricted Breed Dogs

Pit Bull Terrier Registration

The Domestic Animals Act 1994 states that the only restricted breed dogs that can be kept or registered are those that were: in Victoria prior to 1 September 2010 and registered (as any breed) prior to 30 September 2011.

Councils across Victoria have the right to seize unregistered restricted breed dogs. Where dogs are deemed by the council to meet the Standard, they will be declared as a Restricted Breed Dog and may be subject to euthanasia. Owners have the right to appeal the Council's decision through VCAT.

[Rhonda Fisher]

The following dog breeds are restricted:

• American Pit Bull Terrier (or Pit Bull Terrier)
• Fila Brasileiro
• Japanese Tosa
• Dogo Argentino
• Perro de Presa Canario (or Presa Canario).

Only the American Pit Bull Terrier (or Pit Bull Terrier) and one dogo Argentino is known to be in Victoria.

[Georgina]

Sadly we have had similar incidents in the UK.  How can someone think it is acceptable to keep an active intelligent dog in what appears to be a flat.  There is no where for it to use it's intelligence and I'm afraid that it appears that people who keep these dogs want status/guards and expect the dog to behave like a piece of hardware.  It is probably only taken out briefly once a day to relieve itself.  Probably fed the wrong diet and the children of the household possibly torment it.  I think I'm not far off the mark but the incidents here have been in disadvantaged areas and I think the dogs had been used for dog fighting so inevitably there is a time bomb brewing.

I really don't think the dogs are to blame but the humans who have specifically bred from aggressive dogs, brutalised them and then are shocked when a tragedy occurs.   I always think that the adults in the household should be punished because they know exactly what they have done to the dog, their children suffer and ultimately so does the dog.  They really cannot plead innocence.

At the end of the day a small lap dog could do some damage and we are all responsible for anything we take on, animal/products.  I don't know what the solution is except that perhaps there should be a law to disallow people having dogs, whatever size, in a property with no acceptable outdoor space and this could be defined clearly.    But I really don't know.    

 

 

[Angela Clarke]

Sorry Gorgina dogs can live in flats , I know dogs living in flats that go out far more than others that live in a house with an acre of ground, yet confined to a small patio.

[Georgina]

I agree, but those dogs are probably much loved by responsible kind people who have their pets interest upper most in their minds.   They have considered what affect the dog will have on their life styles and that is where the difference lies.   The reports I have seen on tv where these tragic incidents have occured are in deprived inner city environments.   Going back to media exposure, the emphasis has always been about the horrible evil killer dog and legislate, legislate and kill every bull breed to eliminate this horror in our society.  The dogs are not the culprits, it's their owners who are involved in all sorts of undesirable activities, dog fighting included in them.  They gamble and use their dogs in the most deplorable, cruel way.  Disgusting.

So you are quite right and I wouldn't argue with you at all on your comments. 

[Teresa]

It's true, this happened in a disadvantaged area, like most of the accidents related to Pitbulls here in Portugal - it really is a shame...Pitanga and Romã have some "Pit" friends and they are wonderful dogs if socailized and educated properly!

I agree with most of what you said, except the property space... I know plenty of responsible dog owners that live in small places with no garden that make sure that everyday their dogs have all the exercise they need, and all the pee brakes they deserve, including myself! I'm actually living in a small flat with a small balcony, during the week. But no matter the weather, or how short on time I may be, along with plenty of pee brakes, I make sure they get at least 1hr daily of free run in the countryside. I'd hate to see my girls taken away from me because I don't have enough room, when they, in reality, get more exercise and atention that a comon "yard dog". (Please keep in mind that I'm sticking to the portuguese reality, I have the idea UK is a bit more evolved, but never withnessed your reality!)

I think what we need here in Portugal is education. People need to understand what a dog is and their what basic needs are.

Just today, I heard an old man saying, with a lot of conviction, that the main reason you should NEVER have a dog living inside is because animal hair, if left in water, will turn into snakes, so if you inhale a hair, it'll turn into a snake inside your lungs... He was NOT joking, he trully believed in this! So I think a lot could be acomplished with just a little bit more canine education, specially for dog owners, but also for people in general. I sometimes have a hard time believing I see some of the things people do around dogs...

[Torie Lancaster]

I had a friend some years ago who had a male Irish, she lived in a 3rd floor flat and her dog was very well exercised and socialised..  My aunt who also lived in a flat kept a standard poodle with no issues.

It's the same as raising children...it doesn't matter where they live as long as they have family who love them, interact with them and teach them good manners and values...they turn out  just fine.

[Georgina]

Hi Teresa, I'm with you all the way and see my reply to Angela.  I'm not advocating that anyone living in a flat must not have a dog, god forbid.  There would be many very sad people bereft because they were not allowed a dog.

Shocking that in today's society the gentleman truly believed the drivel he was talking about.  Incredible. 

Education would be helpful and I do know that in the UK the children's programmes have "pet" animals on the programmes.  They encourage the children to participate in naming them and learning how the pets progress and what is required to keep the pets healthy and the responsibilty attached thereto.  Very positive for children who have no experience of pets and reaffirmative for those children who are lucky to have pets in their lives.   I also think that in the States, prisoners are encouraged to involve themselves with dogs, I can't remember where the dogs are sourced from but probably dog rescue and the benefits to all are amazing. 

My brother took on an 18 month Staffie from a rescue centre.  She is divine, kind with his sons, delightful with puppies, respectful of cats(!) and very, very gentle with elderly or infirm people.  I have a parson russel terrier who is very outspoken and Star just "humphs, sniffs" and walks away.  The centre used Star as their socialisation dog, seemingly they had a "savage" GSD in and were going to put him down.  They kennelled Star and GSD together and because of her calm nature he became a lot less frightened and eventually was rehomed locally with understanding experienced people.  

[Teresa]

Georgina,

I actually understood exactly what you meant! IF we think about the dog in this particualr case, of course he would have been much better of living in the patio without a chlid falling on him in the middle of the night, and probably this would not have happened. And this is why I explained this would not work in Portugal, because instead of making sure "problem dogs" and "problem areas" were being kept apart, Law inforcement would probably come after responsible dog owners who understand the commitment they make the day they pick up their new pet, and the dogs we want to keep safe from a bad education would be moved to empty fields, chained to some sort of shelter and used for intimitadion all the same. Saddly, this is just the way it works with animals here.

However, if someone would come up to me and say: "if you want to keep your dogs with you, you have to go do a "dog care workshop", or some sort of class, and you have to proof you have the right conditions in your life to keep this dogs" I'd be the first to sign up!

[Georgina]

Hi Teresa, well it would be a good idea I think.  A sort of "boot camp" idea where before taking on the responsibility of a dog people have to be educated.   I think that there are such establishments already and they are voluntary - again because the people are responsible and want to be fully aware of what they are taking on.

All over the world dogs are kept in appalling conditions (and so are people) and the people who create these conditions for another living being to live in will always be in our society, sadly.

All we can do is keep banging on that it is unacceptable and subhuman for those involved in such activities.

 

[Torie Lancaster]

What is really worrying are the idiots who are breeding 'SUPERDOGS' in the UK.

Rottweilers mated with Presa Canario's resulting in what they call Presweiler pups.  The puppies are being sold on to breed with other powerful breeds to create more superdogs......scary stuff !!

[Finding_Beau]

Hi Teresa

Pit Bull Terriers have been banned on the Gold Coast. However, there was an entire male running loose when I was walking Hobson and Misty last weekend in a very popular area used by residents walking their dogs, walking with their children, and adults and children riding bikes, etc. When we had walked past this dog a woman came up to me and asked me if I was feeling nervous when the dog approached us because he was a Pit Bull Terrier!

I am always wary of any type of bull terrier. Benmore, my longhaired Dachshund was almost killed by a bull terrier cross without provocation. Hobson was attacked by a bull terrier cross many years ago without provocation. A mature aged man I know who has recently acquired a young English Setter was knocked to the ground, bitten, and his jeans ripped by 2 staffordshire bull terriers off-leash in his local neighbourhood. This only happened a couple of weeks ago. He and his English Setter were out on their daily walk. His English Setter fled back home and if it had not been for his neighbour who happened to be on the footpath at the time and intervened, his English Setter may have been killed. She was attacked by both dogs and required veterinary attention. Regularly I speak to a dog owner whose dog has been harassed, bitten or killed by a Staffordshire Bull Terrier or STB Cross.

Unfortunately in our society in Australia, human beings on the whole do not care what harm they cause to others. Too many dog owners do not understand the breeding behind their dog and they don't bother to find out.

Responsible dog owners and responsible dog breeders will always do the right thing irrespective of whether there is a law in place. Unfortunately this type of human being is in the minority because of what human beings have become.