How do you tell the good BREEDER from the bad?

[ursula wilby]

This was a title of a discussion suggested to me by a puppy-buyer...a lot of us can perhaps not answer as we are breeders ourselves.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of this discussion now that the "boot is on the other foot" :-)

[ursula wilby]

This is a link to the south swedish setterclub.
www.irishredsetter.net

Check it out! Go on the left hand side and ckick on the different meetings we have.
We mainly do walks as this seems to be what people want (we used to do more serious training and straight away we lost members).
So nice and easy...and fun for all.
We meet once a month and choose different parts of south Sweden.

[Dee Rance]

Well Ursular my house is going on the market and I am moving to where you are walking your dogs, it looks such good fun, I think that we tried to do something like that here in Scotland but it hasn't quite got off the ground yet, must have another go at it..
But when is the calender coming out???? some of the dogs would be great on a calender, don't you think????
Yes getting back to the discussion....I agree, something like the walks that you do would help people choose one way or another, they could see these dogs in various stages of age, weight and trim (or not). Then there would be less reason to re-home some of these sensitive dogs....

[Regina Winkler]

I think that people who buys a puppy for the first time should try to get more information. First of all about the dog they want. Should it be an active dog or not, a big or a small, only to go for a walk or to make dog-sport and so on. And then about the breeder.
Most of them always make the same mistake: they saw a puppy - maybe in a tv-spot or a neighbour has one and they only think: What a nice dog, I must have one! This is the group for the BAD Breeders.
A few weeks ago a family came to our dog-training-center an told us the following story:
They bought a Golden-Retriever puppy and paid 500 Euro for it. The breeder said the puppy has a pedigree. As they picked the puppy up the breeder said that the pedigree is not ready. Days later they called him on the phone. The breeder said: "When you pay 500 Euro more - you can have a pedigree, otherwise you get none!"
Is it possible? I could hardly believe it. But this a good example for that group of buyers. They want a CHEAP dog with pedigree from a breeder. And they don't know that the pedigree is not more than a waste-paper and the breeder is not more than a money-maker.
They buy first and ask later. But then it's too late and once again such a bad breeder has made his business with such - sorry - stupid people. And it's a never ending story of offer and inquiry.

[Di Andrews]

I have had setters for 30years. Two of my setters have had serious genetic problems. I would have love to have done show work & gotten into breeding but the dogs I had were not up to standard & I knew that. I bought the way most people buy a puppy & just fell in love with the breed. I have witnessed some dreadful behaviour by registered breeders in my state, if the dogs were human, welfare would step in and take them off them and I can truthfully say good breeders are like good parents. The health & well being of the dog is of paramount importance. If you can't afford to care for them and give them a quality life & most importantly if their is a genetic problem do not breed.. Breeding is a business & as a breeder you have the control. It is your duty to produce good stock that is sound & represents the absolute best of the breed. The welfare of the dog being at the heart of all good breeding programmes . A good breeder never compromises, his/her standards . I believe we need tougher regulations to protect our most precious companions.

[Nicole Wilson]

Thank you for the link, Ursula. It looks like great fun. There's nothing better than being able to exchange experiences and advice with other setter owners after you've got your puppy! Also, being able to go back to the breeder and ask them questions is invaluable.

[Dee Rance]

You say that breeding is a business, well I am obviously a very poor ''business person'' I have produced 27 puppies in the past 37 years (that isn't exactly flooding the market with puppies) I aim to produce A) a puppy for myself and B) the remaining puppies should be the best that I can produce, as representatives of the breed.
I don't think that it is a business, I think that it is a love, we love the breed!!! there are breeders out there that will take the FULL amount of money for the puppies that they sell, and then, put a codicil on the pedigree saying that they will take 1/2 of the first two litters of the female's, and 1/2 of any stud fee of the males, my thoughts on this is, the puppy owners have paid the full amount for the puppies so they can do with them as they want (so to speak) ie breed from them or not and any moneys from that will be theirs, you wouldn't buy a car with a codicil saying that the garage can use the car for two days out of seven, you just wouldn't do it, but people are doing it in the case of puppies, I think that 'not for export, or not for breeding (if the puppy has a visible defect) these are OK but the other is just ''Money grabbing''
Only my opinion....

[Susan Stone]

Di, I fully agree with what you say about the health and wellbeing of the dog being of paramount importance. Trust and honesty is another thing, needed from both parties. I would also hope for informed breeders who are prepared to learn and informed puppy buyers prepared to ask questions.

Switzerland is in the very novel situation of having brand new regulations as from September 1st 2008. From this date - in theory - anyone wishing to buy a dog for the first time is required by law to visit 4 hours of lessons about animal husbandry, dog behaviour and training. This must be done BEFORE getting the dog. ALL new dog owners (even if you have had a dog before) are then required to visit a minimum of 4 training lessons WITH the dog within one year of purchase. Breeders with more than 3 litters per year are also required to visit an intensive course on animal husbandry.

The rules are there but nobody really knows yet how they will be implemented... and the people who should give lessons first need to be trained... I'm quite in favour of these regulations really, but also a bit doubtful that it will work out.

[Laura Kolbach]

we just had an article about your rules in our dog magazine and other examples from other countries in connection with the "dog licence". lots of pros and contras listed as well and the possibility to implement it in hungary. i only say: change in attitude should be the first step, otherwise it won't work at all. also, i can't imagine how and who will track this...

[ursula wilby]

Wow...that was certainly a set of rules that will take some administration! I can (almost) see how this can be done with pure-bred dogs where you may have to send something back to (for instance) a kennelclub, showing your buyers are qualified.
But how about cross-bred dogs?

Plenty of breeders out there that breed dogs without pedigrees and therefore dont follow rules that we perhaps have to obide by.

I must say that I would personally be somewhat pissed off if I had to go to 4 training-lessons with a new puppy, considering all the dogs I have had. I find it amazing that there could be a rule like that.

But if it helps people to become better owners/breeders, perhaps this is what is needed.

Although I wonder how these rules can be made to work...what happens if the new owner never goes to a class? Who will round up all the dogs where the owners have not followed the rules? And what will happen to them?
Interesting!
Please keep us updated on this Susan!

[Susan Stone]

I will!
Your questions are quite valid... and no answers yet!
Unfortunately these rules all originate in the deadly attack of a child by unsocialised Pitbulls imported by an Italian who thought he could sell them in certain circles. Illegal then, illegal now - and the new rules won't help avoid that kind of thing!

And as usual the 'normal' pet owner must suffer... even the not so normal like you, Usrula;-)))

[ursula wilby]

Interesting spelling of my name...makes me even MORE un-usual :-)

Would it not make more sense to take a driving-licence once and for all? After all we dont need new lessons for every new car we buy, do we?

[Laura Kolbach]

i still think that those who care about their dogs and assure a kind of normal and active life to their dogs, will also do the necessary "training". but it is not them needing it, but all the rest... on the other hand, i met quite many dog owners who think they are on the top regarding their dog knowledge... but NOT... not saying i know everything but definately more then most of them...