A "whipsett", a Gorpet?? A bl***y disaster?

[Ossian]

I have been reading the outcross debate and some of the other stuff on here this week and I know there are some fine minds and caring people on ES! I am not a crusader, quite the opposite, but as a Setter owner and lover I have to highlight this!!

In the main we cross Seters by accident and when we see Lab x doodles and schmoozies and god knows what else we get annoyed but dont think much more.

Yesterday evening I came across an advert for puppies.

A "pet home" is advertsing Gordon x whippet for £300. There is a pic of a spindly orange puppy (cute at that age I suppose)

The Gordon community in UK is not large and I have subsequently discovered that the Gordon bitch has allegedly had a litter ever season and the "pet home" is not.

We quibble and bicker on here about all sorts of things but if we could do some good too?

Follow up on pups

Keep an eye on for sale ads on the net

Be nosy and report things that dont seem right

PLEASE dont condone these designer breeds anymore

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Margaret.

I totally agree with you.

[Ossian]

LoL bur you would be very amused if a Bichon appeared in a litter

I think that might be where the "historical" crosses differ! Mostly were they not done to change something and would be gundog to gundog (mind it might be true that Gordons were crossed with collies)

The labdoodle is one of the better ones but mostly as Andy says the crosses are for money with little forethought to the objective 

 

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Were there not stories about a bloodhound/Irish Setter cross in the 1920's?  There was a well known Irish Setter kennels where a kennel worker who had been sacked came back and got his revenge by letting  all the dogs,  Irish Setters and other breeds, including bitches in season, loose.

 

And I can tell a strange story about how I came to have my first IRWS. I had a big tall springer dog who was very hard to train, he ran much too wide for a springer, so I took him to a professional trainer to get the problem sorted. The trainer was Peter Everitt Stewart, who had also trained setters in the past. Having watched my springer's habit of taking off, and doing a circuit of the next parish, before coming back, He concluded that the dog probably had some setter ancestry, most likely an IRWS! In spite of having an impeccable working and field trial springer pedigree.  I had never seen or heard of IRWS, so I had a look at them on the benches at Crufts - and bought my first one a few weeks later. I never did track down where some setter blood could have got into my springers, but when I came to live in NE Scotland, I realised  one of our springer bitches, the dam of our big running dog,  had come from a breeder only a few miles  from John Kerr's IRWS and Irish Setter kennels, John had also owned springers. John's IRWS are behind my current IRWS . Maybe my springers and my IRWS were related! It wouldnt surprise me in the least., but I will never know

[eva ciechonska]

Apparently the Bloodhound was introduced to improve the "nose". Unfortumately along with that came "houndy" heads and throatiness. Luckily we have managed to eliminate the throats but we still get the heads occasionally.
In defence of IS breeders all the ones I know "rescue" there own dogs and will have any dogs back that they have bred. Andy himself knows this because only the other day he saw a 15 week old puppy advertised in his local paper. He rang me, I found out the breeding, rang the owner of the stud dog who I knew and she has bought the puppy back. I would love to know how many breeders of Designer dogs would do that.

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Eva.

A big thank you for getting involved with the puppy. It should now have the life it deserves.

To be fair this is not the correct site to get the opinions of designer dog breeders. As I said before, some are good and some are bad. I think most opinions about them on here are slightly biased.

[eva ciechonska]

Andy the thread is about designer dogs so it stands to reason that the breeders if these dogs are discussed as well. You were lucky with Cassie and her breeder so your opinion is coloured by your own experience. I, like many like many others, have seen the other side, of dogs kept in crates, of multiple litters being sold at more than pedigree prices, of all kind of combinations with no thought paid to inherited problems, temperament etc. You ask where there has been a case of a Labradoodle savaging a child well I meet two with seperate owners who are muzzled and kept on a lead. Another one who is a total lunatic.......etc. etc. In all cases the "caring breeders" have washed their hands and are not interested. I bet Cassie's breeder wouldn't have her back and you said yourself that she was a mess when she came to you. Whatever problem you lay at the door of pedigree dog breeders you must also lay at designer dog breeders. The difference between the two is that the former, on the whole, have a passion for their breed while the latter, on the whole, have a passion for making a fast buck and exploiting the current market for posh crossbreds.

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Eva.

I am well aware what the discussion is about. The point I am making is very few designer dog breeders visit this site, so we have not heard what they have to say. Most of the people on this site are a little biased. Cassie did look a mess when we bought her as she had been rolling around outside and her coat is like velcro. I do believe the breeder loved her dogs. As you know it is always best to look at the dog and not just the coat. We did that and thought she was a healthy well fed dog. Our vet confirmed that. I am not saying that all designer dogs are good, but I am not saying they are all bad. I can honestly say, I have not seen a bad Labradoodle on any of our walks and I have seen quite a few and all the owners were pleased with them. I do not like to make sweeping statements about breeders of any dogs. It is not as simple as one size fits all.

You say "I bet Cassie's breeder wouldn't have her back" but the fact is we will never know and it is unfair to make a statement like that. Cassie's breeder has been in contact with me and she likes to hear about her progress.

We can only speak through our own experience and in my case every Labradoodle I have met has been a good one.

I am in no way defending every designer dog breeder, but I will not condemn every one of them. My opinions on breeders are the same for pedigree dogs too, good ones and bad ones.

As for me being lucky with Cassie, I struck gold. I like the look of her, she is well behaved, easy to train, very healthy and you could not wish for a better temperament. What more could I ask?

[eva ciechonska]

Andy, I don't make sweeping statements. I have been with people who have wanted to buy, in one case a labrador/poodle cross a nd in several cases cocker/poodle crosses. In ALL I have seen dogs of various breeds in cages and more than one variety cross litters. In all the cases the breeder assured the prospective buyers that the "breed" would soon be recognised as a pedigree by the KC. The breeder of the Labrador/Poodle cross wanted £850 for her puppies. The others varied from £650 upwards. Just because you were lucky doesn't mean everyone else has been. So please don't make sweeping statements on the basis of your own experience. I have absolutely nothing against crossbreds, we had plenty of them when I was growing up. What I do object to is peple who call themselves breeders exploiting the current trend for designer dogs without much thought to the outcome of their cross-matings. I am sure there are probably caring breeders of designer dogs out there but not in my experience or the experience of anyone I have talked to (except you of course). By the way there is a boarding kennel near me that works with rescue and re-homing. They are seeing more and more designer dogs coming in than ever before. On the orher hand if you contact Irish Setter Rescue you will probably need to put your name down and wait for a dog to come into the scheme. There is a waiting list.

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Eva.

First of all, I have never been guilty of making sweeping statements.

I have never said the prices of designer dogs were fair, even though the price I paid was. I have never said that every designer/ cross breed is a good thing.

I have only ever said that you get good and bad dogs and good and bad breeders, nothing more. I did also say you get good and bad owners. Obviously my opinions are based on my own experience, as are yours. I have never said the prices of all designer dogs are fair or all designer dog breeders are honest. You say that most IS breeders are willing to take dogs back if the new owner has problems, and most of the time that is true, but not every time. I have the utmost respect for responsible breeders, but not all breeders are responsible.

Speaking from my own experience, I did try to get a designer dog through the Labradoodle rescue, but they had none. I did try to get a setter from the rescue, but they did not have any that were suitable.

I have been lucky with every dog I have ever owned although, looking back one IS pup may have originally come from a puppy farm. I will never know the truth and my feelings could be wrong. She was bought in Kent.

I find it difficult to understand how anyone can disagree with what I have said. You will always find owners that are not happy with the dog they have bought, whatever type it is. Many owners are happy with the dogs they buy whatever type or breed. Some stupid people should not be allowed to own a dog as they have no idea what to expect from them.

I have also heard of designer dog breeders charging shed loads for the pups and telling owners lies, that is obviously wrong.

As stated, you will find good and bad breeders and owners of every type.

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Sue.

My opinion of designer dog breeders is not biased. I have said from the start, you get good ones and bad ones just the same as pedigree dog breeders. You also get good dogs and bad dogs, designer and pedigree. Breeders should not all be tarred with the same brush.

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Sue.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I try to be fair and do not wish to say all breeders of designer dogs are bad as in my opinion that is not true. When you say you have all said the same thing, I am not clear what you mean. Does that mean you have all said the breeders of designer dogs are all bad or do you mean that some are good and some are bad?

[Andy Benstead]

Hi Sue.

I will agree with that.