Sire and Dam details in Litter Advertisements

[Rhonda Fisher]

A interesting new trend in advertisements on Dogs on line pure breed website. Litters of Irish being advertised with no mention of the Dam or Sire. Ads talk of proven show lines, bloodlines that have proven to be successful around the globe, features some of Australiasias top bloodlines, all Uk and european lines etc.

No names of the Dam and Sire.

Contact with the breeders has to be made before you can find out.

I find this strange as I would want to know more about the health and background of the pups up front. What do you think

[Finding_Beau]

Before I purchased my first English Setter, Jessie I went to the Royal Brisbane dog show to meet all the English Setter breeders in Australia who attended the RNA Show. I also carried out a great deal of research myself. This was back in 1990. My view has always been that if I am going to buy a purebred puppy I expect this puppy to have good conformation, a good temperament and to be healthy. Otherwise I might as well go out and buy a cross-breed puppy. I believe it should be the aim of every responsible breeder to attempt to breed every litter of puppies to achieve the breed standard and for the purebred puppy to be able to grow to do what the breed is meant to do. The majority of purebred puppies are not shown.

The bloodlines have always been important to me because there are known health and temperament problems in certain English Setters bloodlines in Australia and because particular bloodlines result in a particular type of English Setter. As a purchaser I have a right to choose. For instance, my good friend, Jean Preece breeds the type of English Setter I like and I know without doubt she is an honest, reputable breeder who takes pride in every single puppy she breeds. I was purchasing a puppy from Jean in 2001 but the mating was not successful. I had to wait until 2003 for Hobson and he was well worth the wait. This does not mean that I did not love my English Setter, Beau because he was different in type.

Obviously the bloodlines have been irrelevant to me when I have rescued several mature aged English Setters, and I did proceed with a recent purchase of a purebred English Setter puppy with bloodlines I would never have considered and with close line breeding I would never have considered, but I did this purely to help my English Setter, Hobson. I hoped for the best but I never expected the appalling result, and this has proven even more to me how important the bloodlines are when purchasing a purebred English Setter puppy and how important it is to research the registered breeder thoroughly and if in doubt, not to proceed.  

I used to think that purchasing a purebred puppy should be a completely different matter from rescuing a purebred dog but this reasoning has now been “thrown out of the window”. Just because a breeder advertises on Dogzonline does not mean they are a reputable breeder. Just because breeders write words does not mean they are honest and that their actions will support these words. Just because a pet owner chooses not to breed, does not mean that they will not do a better job than a registered dog breeder in feeding and raising a purebred puppy or a purebred dog.

What should be of primary importance is the welfare of the dog!

I have said nothing derogatory to Eva or anyone else. We live in a free society and I am entitled to have an opinion.

[Rhonda Fisher]

It is interesting reading how we all came to find our setters. A pup is for life and I take my hat off to people who stand by their dogs through so many on going issues outlined on ES. I agree Susan, if research helps you understand the background and health of a pup it is so important to not be distracted from the process. Once you take over ownership of a pup there is no turning back, your heart is invested in their welfare for both your lives. It is eye opening when you do quietly sit and listen to what some breeders say and how they justify their actions. Thank goodness our setters are such honest souls and make the search for a transparent breeder worthwhile. 

[Pat Aldridge]

I apologise in advance, as this response to the original question posed by Rhonda will probably not end up placed where it should be.

Rhonda, litter advertisements contain whatever the breeder wants to put in them.  If they wish to keep the details brief that is their prerogative - after all, they are paying for the advertisement or listing.  A very simple answer to your question is - pick up the phone & speak to the breeder advertiser direct if you want to know details of their litters, or send them an email.   Few breeders will ignore a genuine enquiry.  Such a simple solution.

I rarely have the need to advertise my puppies.

[Rhonda Fisher]

A more simple solution Pat. Choose a more transparent breeder who is very proud to announce that there lovely Dam ..... is having a litter to Sire ...... Admire the pic of dam and pups. Browse through the information on completed health checks and take it from there.

[Pat Aldridge]

As I said above, if the breeder chooses not to put breeding, pictures, health testing, etc in the breeder's advertisement that is their prerogative. It's not a matter of transparency. Ring or email if you require the information, it's not difficult.

[Rhonda Fisher]

Another simple solution or perhaps not a solution is when you see breeders very proud of their Sire and Dam announcing with photos of each that there will be a litter in the future. I do admire Breeders that take such pride in the individual dogs and not just rely on a kennel name and a statement about winning in the ring. It gives me the feeling that the individual dogs being matched and the resulting pups are the most important thing to the breeder.

[Finding_Beau]

The cost of the advertisement or listing does not compare to the purchase price of a purebred puppy and does not compare to the ongoing costs if the puppy is not healthy. Every purchaser of a purebred puppy is entitled to receive a puppy which has some resemblance to the breed standard, is healthy and does not have behaviour problems. Unfortunately this is not the case and I can now understand why so many responsible dog owners are choosing to purchase a dog from a pound rather than purchase a purebred dog from a registered dog breeder.

[Pat Aldridge]

We need a "LIKE" button on here LOL!

[Finding_Beau]

I am not making assumptions. You are also not reading what I am writing. In fact I consider some of your comments to be nonsense e.g. your words: Nobody is forcing potentail owners to buy from a particular breeder, so if you don't like the advertisement, don't go there.......simple! This has no relationship whatsoever to what I have said and does not make any sense.

[eva ciechonska]

Susan, please tell me where the nonsense is in Nobody is forcing potential owners to buy from a particular breeder, so if you don't like the advertisment, don't go there..... I think that is very sound advice.

[Finding_Beau]

I did not think I would need to spell it out. Obviously any purchaser, unless they were mentally impaired, would not allow themselves to be forced to buy any purebred dog from any breeder and if they did not like the advertisement, they would definitely not go there. I do not consider this to be sound advice. I consider these words to be nonsense and completely irrelevant.

Re Sue's words: In this country, there is a saying "buyer beware," surely a sensible potential owner wouldn't buy a pup just on the basis of the names of the sire and dam and a few pretty pictures. Why write these words? This is basic common sense. These words have absolutely nothing to do with what I have said.

It is a waste of my time contributing further to this discussion. The same members gang up on anyone who does not agree with their opinions. I'll be back though one day in the not too distant future.

[eva ciechonska]

I agree with you Susan about the same members ganging up on anyone who does not agree with their opinions, Lord knows I have been on the receiving end of this from certain members many a time and have come to expect it whenever I post.