I am just curious on everyones take on whether or not they believe the Irish Setter is being sent down the same unfortunate road of being split into two seperate "types" (ie. bench and field) and if so what can and should be done about it. Also, what are the opinions of the American vs Overseas bred dogs? In my own opinion I am seeing a much larger tendancy in the US to breed a flashy, racey show dog that has little or no instinct and that is moving away from the more solid and reliably birdy dogs that have been previously being produced. What's your opinions?
I have seen quite a few Irish as there is a breeder up here, though unfortunately he only breeds to what he has on hand and not necessarily for quality. I have also been fortunate enough to go to (as we call them) outside shows in both Canada and the States. I was just curious what others take was on this. I am by no means an expert but would like to learn as much as possible. Thanks for the comment.
Its not only types because of differing standards (discussed) making differences, but rules for field-events as well. And most of all: dogpolitics and a more or less bubbling under setterwar in the USA.
Striking differences: 1) A high tail on point is expected in USA/Canada-cultures, cultures adopting the Official description of the working style (ODWS) as launched by the Irish Red Setter Club in Ireland demand a tail not above the line of the back. Plus a "dead" tail while working, except on turns, USA/Canada not. 2) Point: USA/Canada up. Crouching can be penalized. ODWS: ok.
You can read the ODWS on the website of the Irish Red Setter Club in Ireland. www.Irishredsetterclub.com It was adopted by the National Red Setter Field Trial Club (NRSFTC) in the USA as well, but with alterations (tail etc.). Interestingly the NRSFTC also adopted the conformation standard of the IRSC. That makes two conformation standards working in the USA: the Irish and the AKC-one.
There are still Irish setters gaining a field- AND show champion title.
If you want a dual Irish setter performing tops quite a few European cultures can bring you tops, but the point is the point. And the tales tell tricky tales...
Tricky as well is the division in the USA between American Kennel Club (AKC) and the Field Dog Stud Book (FDSB).
In 1975 the AKC decided on the basis of an advice of the Irish Setter Club of America (ISCA) to discontinue reciprocal registry. Top performing Irish setters are found most in the FDSB only, like the ones from dr Roger Boser and the Come Back setters. This "ban" also banned quite a few dual descendants of Sulhamsteads, bred by Florence Nagle called THE dogwoman of last century.
Believe it or not, in a period when the breed is rampaged by loss of founding families, a source of broadening lines is banned. Making not only the show split because of differing standards, but also a field split by differing rules and bans by bosses of show-industry.
Ginger, I doubt any of us has ALL facts. But at least to get to know more facts, this website can be of help.
As for your remark on reciprocal registry, I know at least a lot of facts. Under more by talking to founders of the NRSFTC while visiting your country plus the amazing National Bird Dog Museum. Plus reading all relevant -open- sources. I invite you to document your statement of "hearsay" and share all your sources with us.
I'm used to share facts.
As for that English setter, that is a well documented fact in the fifties. For later crossings, check The Modern Red Setter, interview dr Roger Boser. More cultures are allowed to cross (the Gordon setter in Scandinavia was updated likewise by mr Steen), but in the USA it lead to a giant split.
Are you saying you are not allowed to say anything about America because of not living there? Hmmmmmmmmm
Ginger, this topic can be of interest for anyone living where-ever.
So why do you want to stop a topic started by an American with question as well on OVERSEAS issues+ plans to import from IRELAND? Do you want to censor facts and/or opinions where the US of A, worlds champion of free speech is concerned?
Can you document your statement on "how many other breeds" etc. Afghans maybe like we talked in another topic on American show-Irish? Well hope you clear this otherwise that IS hearsay....
Your critics on places visited. Well that National Bird Dog Museum was an amazing experience. Broadens horizons!
Why not broaden your own horizon? And comment on it - why not?