As a new member I am shocked........

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I have only been a member of this site for one week and I am horrified at the thought of entering into a discussion!

I joined because I have always liked Gundogs, especially Setters of all varieties and have been thinking of owning one or maybe even two.

My friend who is a member said to me a few months ago "Bel, I have found a lovely site for Setter enthusiasts and the people on there are so nice and friendly".

I am sorry to say, after reading through some of the latest discussions, I don't share her opinion at all!

All I have read are aggressive, verbal attacks on members who do not share the opinions of a few regular contributors who gang up on anyone who dares to disagree with their point of view.

I don't know how many members there are on here, but it seems the whole site is run by a few 'know alls' who delight in making other members valuable contributions to discussions a very unpleasant experience for them.

Some on here will probably say I should hold no opinions at all because I am a 'newbie' to this site.

Well sorry, I loath bullying in any shape or form and that's what I see happening on here!

Maybe I will test the water on a site for a different gundog breed because from what I have read so far on here, setter breeders are not people I would like to have any more contact with.

[Angela Roberts]

Wonder what Mumsnet would say about all of this!  Your right Mel and all on someones post who has left the site.  See what she's missing. 

[Petros]

Annabel, respect for the above...

If you are disappointed from what you saw on my Thread it was a one off.... I do not usually come on this forum because for a true working irish setter this site is not useful at all...No disrespect to the other people but I have not found any information here benefitial simply because people here do not work their dogs and do not have the experience that I am looking for....
Again people No disresrespect ment. just to be clear...

 

But you need to learn that you need to filter through alot of information and pick what works for you...
The thread that I started was simply because I do not agree with Shows for dogs... for me its meaningless and a flawed system which does not benefit any breeds or qualities in the breeds... thats my opinion and I chose to start a fight about it on purpose...

If you do prefer to show your dog I wont attack you but you might find the members here useful in that area more... but to me that is not a gun dog (since you said you liked gundogs).... I dont think you will find this site usefull if you like gundogs :)

 

Again my opinion... Please dont chop my head off for it....

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Petros, there are a few people on this list who do own working bred setters and train them to work, although they may not say very much unless there is a topic for discussion which interests them. I have been on internet setter lists from around 1998, and lived through the flaming wars between show and working people, and I dont think I am the only one who finds the endless show/working argument increasingly futile and boringly repetitive  - there is no resolution to the argument and no one ever wins. What one can do is to post news from time to time about your dogs, how you are training them , what your are doing with them, the successes you achieve, and your puppies if you breed. Even show people like to see photos of setters working and competing in field trials. And just occasionally somebody with a show bred dog becomes interested in working with a setter, it may be they just want to do a little training with their show dog. That's fine, if only one in fifty of them then decides later that what they really want is a working bred dog, its one more person converted. And sometimes that person who started with show dogs becomes , after many years, a successful field trialler. There are are people on this group who have travelled that route. And you know Robyn Gaskin who started with a show dog, and look where she is now. Some of our top field triallers in the UK like Colin and Julie Organ , and and Peter O'Driscoll, started in show dogs

The main thing is, keeping the breeding of working setters and the art of training them alive, even if you are one of a small minority. Better to spend your time out there doing it, than wasting time and energy on the internet. And just a thought, you wont find many successful field triallers on the internet, they are too busy out there with their dogs, its takes much more time to train and field trial a dog than it does to show one

[Petros]

Just got back from training the dog....

Margaret I completly agree with you... The internet part not that much.,... I met tons of people and got alot of useful information on the internet forum from NZ which I subsequenlty met with in person and mentored me through, even profession trainers. So spending time on the internet is not such a bad idea if you are a novice... From then on I met alot of other sucessful field trialists. Now, Robyn lives around 300km away from me otherwise Id be bugging her everyday to join her in the training....

But thats out of the point now...

I agree with you on the show/working argument .... I only sparked the argument for the sake of the documentary and what is happening, as I said above I only visit the site once every now and then but because the documentary was around show dogs I knew If I said anything on this forum in particular it will trigger a big discussion which turned to an argument for some because it didn't end up going their way...but some actually accepted my view and didn't end up arguing or even some which earned my respect... they tried to prove to me their point of view, just like in dogs minds an arugment doesn't end up anywhere, discussion it does....

 

As for this forum, those people that may work their dogs I haven't found many of them here... so In some respect I believe I was right in the above comment saying that this is not the best site for gun-dogs even though its an Irish setter site...

All I am saying for Annabel is that she needs to filter through the information that she is looking for, if she is looking for a show dog and some information around that this site would probably be usefull as for Gun-dog training and info this is not the best site for that... 

[Margaret Sierakowski]

There was a working setters group on the internet which started around 1998 which attracted some genuine working setter people from all around the world. Unfortunately it also attracted a few quite aggressive people, and that was offputting to people who were new in setters and wanted to learn, and the group died several years ago. I was several years on the American Working Gundog group, dont know if that group still exists but I certainly learned a lot there, and the discussion was well mannered and kept under control by the moderator, although I believe a smaller group of more professional gundog trainers split off and formed a private group of their own. And isnt there a list called Pacific Working Gundogs for NZ and Australian setter people? or maybe that has died too? Maybe it is time for a new Working Setters group?

[Dee Rance]

Don't forget our beloved 'pets' too...because lets face it they are first and foremost our pets, show, working or just settee/bed wormers....just splitting hairs Susan......lol...;o))

[Dee Rance]

Dah...me no spel or read....propper...eh????

[Ossian]

Crumbs Margaret if the woman who thought she was shocked by the way she was spoken to on here had been on Working Setters she would have had something to complain about! Henk is on  here somewhere he would attest to that!

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Many show bred Irish Setters do field trials?

[eva ciechonska]

Margaret, Whenever we have a genetcally inherited problem (CLAD, PRA etc) and have a DNA test it is the show fraternity who galvanise themselves into action.  We don't hear anything about the field trialers joining in and getting their dogs tested.  I ask this because one of Colette's field trial bitches has come back as a carrier of rcd-4.  This bitch is from working lines and Colette did comment about it on the rcd-4 discussion.

Apologies for asking the question on this discussion but as there is an ongoing thread about working dogs I thought I might join in.

You are right, we have had many "show versus working setters" discussions on this site and maybe Petros would like to plough his way through Henk's posting last year (or was it the year before?  Time flies faster than I would like it to!!).  If that doesn't leave him knackered I don't know what will!!! 

Petros, if you are interested then the first dog show for Setters and Pointers was held in the late 1850's.  The first field was held in the mid 1860's though, of course, Setters were being worked long before then...........we have had many many years of showing setters!

This is a very versatile and easygoing breed, whether worked, shown or just kept as a companion.  Aren't we lucky........

[Maggie Smith]

I like this comment - how true it is!

[Sherry Miller]

Shh ....don't let the secret out that we have found the perfect pet and companion in our Irish or everyone will have one! :)