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Just out of interest, I have just been looking at the inbreeding coefficients of some of the litters currently available and have discovered that many of them are way over the breed average of 13.4  one litters coefficient is way over 25.

I am wondering if breeders are bothered that they are producing litters with these results? If not can somebody please explain to me, as a Setter pet owner why this is so?  If I was currently looking for a puppy, these kind of results would make me look elsewhere.

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Greg, your post is very interesting. 

I couldn't find the full paper on the Sydney Uni website.  Can you please post the link?

Well, somebody has gone and done it.  This litter have a breeding coefficient of 0

If I were currently looking for a puppy, I think I would be up there to look at this litter like a shot, not just because of the coefficient I hasten to add, but because of their potential to become an active sporting dog in on form or another.


Interesting. I wonder if the breeder did this with any intention in mind.

Amazing Fran, breed average going down.

Just done this for my new puppy, I am thick and dont understand ????!!!!!!

anyone please ????


  • Inbreeding: 0.013671875 (1.3671875%)
  • AVK (ancestor loss coefficient): 87.096774193548%

The computation has been done for 5 generations

Hello Angela, if you use the Kennel Club Mate Select site this is your result,  http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/inbree...

Thanks Rosie, told you I was thick I filled in 5 generation to get my results.

puppy about average

5 year old twice the average ( always been very healthy)

8 year old half the average ( had multi. health issues since 2.5 years)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  strange !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well said Sue

'If only others would understand population genetics cannot be applied to Purebred Populations where selection for generations has created the breed.There is nothing at all random but rather controlled breedings with the intent of maintaining and improving breed characteristics , health and temperament.

A selective process eliminating undesirable traits and reinforcing desirable ones.Same principle as when breeding commercial livestock whether it be for,fleece milk,egglaying etc. 

If for example trying to reduce the incidence of bloat and you continue to breed from dogs with a family loaded with bloat the COI will have no bearing on reducing the incidence.

If you were to inbreed to families with no history  of bloat progress would be made. In Australia its is indeed rare to breed from an individual that has bloated as history has shown us that you only carry it forward to subsequent generations.The COI will have no bearing on the incidence but the family history will .Too totally unrelated animals from familes with bloat in their background will produce blaot .

The same principles apply to all health issues.The COI is not the predictor of good health its the genetic makeup of each individual .If a trait isn't carried within the genetic make up  inbreeding cannot create it unless there is mutation .

Pedigrees provide us with family history which when expanded to include health issues it then becomes the tool with which we can make informed decisions.

What also needs to be taken into consideration here is the interplay between genes and environment.  Genetic issues don't just happen because the mutation happens to be present. It would appear that you have the mutation + other factors which then activate the mutation. There is a condition running through my family, some members of the family have developed the condition whilst others haven't.  It appears that those in the UK have, whilst those in Oz haven't. Interesting.  Surely more more inbreeding would act as a means of conduction route for a mutation though?

Mutations Fran are random and usually occur when genetic material simply ends up in the wrong place various terms used to describe the process during cell division.

The studies of human genetics where in Australia we have had migration from all parts of the world is fascinating.

A recent discovery of a gene in the Aboriginal population known previously only to have occurred in Holland leads to speculation that Dutch navigators may have been shipwrecked on our Western shores and "inter married" with the local  population

I would not say it is rare to breed from an individual that has bloated in Victoria. I would suggest it is rare to be honest about it even when offering the dog out for stud. Only my experience though. 

Sorry thats your perception of Victorian breeders not one I share




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