Did the breed change or not since the sixties?

[Henk ten Klooster]

Did the Irish setter breed change in half a century or not? In a topic elsewhere there is a statement  the breed did not change in fifty years.

 

What is your opinion? Did the breed change yes or no, if yes in what aspects (conformation, health, character, working capacities)? Can you document your opinion? Same for no changes in your opinion, can you document that?

 

Here is a kick off with an article on the Derrycarne Irish red setters, bred by Maureen Mc Keever, published in 2003 in The Leitrim Guardian, written by Kevin Mc Manus. Her activities cover a large part of the period mentioned in the statement. She bred more key Irish setters in both show and working nowadays Irish setters. Would these still be able to win - show and/or work?

 

Because there was some interest in Derrycarne history, on request a story is added on a daughter of Derrycarne Harp - Ailean O'Cuchulain. Its entitled Devils Dearest, written as a tribute.  On request as well a story Hartsbourne Flame was added. She was a shower of hail and littersister to IRCH Derrycarne Martini. 

[kristi schrittwieser]

I believe they were Red Spaniels.

[eva ciechonska]

I am not sure on the colour, but it does mention the Large Land Spaniel, and offers..........*the large part of their skynnes are white and if they were marcked with any spottes, they are commonly red........." But, hey, we are going back a few centuries here.

[Margaret Sierakowski]

"Don't only read Lar on the 'sharpness' of working dogs, he is just responding to Margaret, Colette and Trudy........read them, that is where I got it from."

Please dont infer from anything that has been posted that there are widespread temperament problems among working reds or IRWS. I simply said that there is ONE breeder of IRWS who thinks that a sharper dog is a more competitive field trial dog
In my own breeding I have had no temperament problems from working dogs, in fact my working bred dogs generally have temperaments which are easier to live with than show bred IRWS.

[eva ciechonska]

Margaret, may I refer you to Colette's comments June 19th your comments June 20th and Lar's comments June 20th all on page 33.

"Please don't infer from anything that has been posted......" If it is not correct then why post it? I have always said that my knowledge rests with the show dogs. I rely on you and others to fill the gaps in my education in respect of the working dogs. I hope it may continue to be so, but if not then I am surely being mislead.

[eva ciechonska]

Margaret...........

"There are simply a LOT of working Setters being bred in Ireland. You have only to look at the VOLUME of ads on Dondeal to get an idea of how many"

Your words, my caps?

You have commented yourself on failed working dogs who breeders won't take back and who end up in pounds. Nothing to do with broken homes.

[kristi schrittwieser]

Joanne stated that the UK show dog looks more like the origial. I am not offended. It still doesn't look like a working dog whether bred in UK or US.

[eva ciechonska]

Kristi, this is not a battle and, yes, you are right, it does not look like a working dog, wherever bred.

[kristi schrittwieser]

Eva I never wanted to battle. You got aggresive with me on many of your answers. I think you were in a battle. I answered your questions quite kindly.

[eva ciechonska]

Not a battle Kristi, just a rearguard defence. And there I am agreeing with your final point and here you are jumping down my throat again.

[kristi schrittwieser]

Eva if you saw it as a battle I would greatly like to extend my apologies..

[eva ciechonska]

Kristi........Absolutely no reason to apologise..........just an exchange of opinions, ok so a bit heated but they are always the best......get the passions going, and I learn a bit more every time.

[kristi schrittwieser]

You know way more then I do about this Eva. As we said we can learn from this site and I have learned a lot already. I guess I compare to my dog and its hard. I have to say it was quite difficult for me to own her without hunting her. I had inherited her from a woman that got ill. As I siad she was quite impressive. And I did run into many Vizslea and Weimarar owners that were impressed and would ask what kind of dog is that. On the east coat they are not very popular. They run in the midwest. I know Vizlslas and Weimaranas hunt close but the running style was completely different. As I said she was long gone Sailor Moon, lol. And I do love the big setters. I told you there is a field/show in the park and I love him. My dog gave me gray hair but she was worth it. I have also seen big setters run and they run also. One thing that got me angry was a few years ago when I got involved in setter rescue. This woman was only intp pet setters.She completely shunned the field dogs. My breeder was friends with her when she had bench setters. She showed them. She stopped the friendship with the setter rescue because of her attitude. I think everyone should get a grip and do what is best for the dog. The fighting and anger here is bad.