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Due to problems accessing the AHT website Dr Nigel Holmes has kindly agreed to extend the "promotional code" for the South fo England Irish Setter Club until 31st August. Unfortunately the original code cannot still be used so a new one has had to  be issued and will have to be obtained again from the SEISCwebmaster. The AHT apologises for any inconvenience caused!

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I don't know where you get the idea that I 'prefer to fight with you, rather than answering him' from.

if he asks me a sensible question, I will answer him.

I have merely expressed what I have learned and believe to be correct.  I thought that was what discussion forums were about.

If you want to breed grandfathers to granddaughters then thats up to you, I just hope you keep plenty of test kits in stock

Val, when someone of Wilko's vast experience in Irish Setters posts, it would behove you to read what he posts, instead of trying to denigrate him.  You just might learn something - unless you have been in Irish Setters for longer perhaps?  Sorry, but I had never heard of you prior to ES.

As for your genetics knowledge, anyone will tell you that inbreeding cannot "create" genetic /hereditary problems (barring a mutation of course LOL!) - it merely brings out what is already there.

You cannot equate human "breeding" with dog breeding - apples with apples please!

I don't see how I have tried to denigrate him...I don't understand what his question is, so how can I answer it?

I have been involved with Irish Setters and many more breeds besides, for 35 years.

As for "my genetics knowledge" partly learned through course work and partly from specialists in dog genetics.

How can you say " inbreeding cannot create genetic/hereditary problems, it merely brings out what is already there"?

If it is 'already there' and by breeding your 'bringing it out'...there is a big problem.

Ask yourself how genetic/hereditary problems are spread?....The dogs don't do it by themselves!


Hey Pat, just what the situation requires!!  Love it!!!!!!!!


Me n all..............priceless!!!

The idea is not mine Val it is Wilko's observation from his comment on a previous page.  I do think you are being extremely discourteous and off hand towards him.  There is no need for that. Wilko has been in this breed a lot longer than you have and has studied it and loved it during all that time.  He IS asking you sensible questions, you just need to take the time and the trouble to understand them for they seem to be crystal clear to everyone else.  

If the grandfather and granddaughter are both clear then I would have no need to stock plenty of test kits would I.....


To answer your comment on percentages it is more than 1% and it is very much known Val.  I could quote you many litters that were tested for CLAD and rcd-1 where the averages were far from the normal expected and in some cases a welcome relief.  Every last percent matters........
That is why it is called averages....it takes both the lowest and the highest and then devides them by the number of subjects,  then the basic average is calculated...
Point taken on averages Dee but I believe we are talking about percentages.  I believe Catherine has also answered that one

I am re-posting part of my previous post as I posted it on page 10... sorry I went to bed and everyone has been busy!! 

I believe these statistics are calculated over 100 pups, therefore, any litter may not represent the scientists/geneticists calculations as each litter can have a different make-up of the % of carriers; clears and affected, but it is expected that over 100 pups, the statistics will be accurate.

This is my understanding of how this works in reality:

Using the calculations for clear x carrier =        50% clear       50% carrier, the following is a simple example:  Litter A could have 80% clear and 20% carrier; but Litter B could have it in reverse with 80% carrier and 20% clear. Overall, the statistics are correct, but in individual litters, there is variance in the percentages. 

I believe this happened with the PRA test matings years ago (before DNA) where a test mating had all puppies healthy and not going blind, but subsequent litter had blind puppies.  Thank God we have DNA testing and do not have to go through the heartaches that our wonderful breeders of the past had to endure with breeding to identify carriers, etc.


Thank-you Camilla for posting those litter statistics.  It certainly confirms the variances in each litter.

Sue.....The difference is, you cause the non beneficial mutations to spread!


As Eva said in one of her replies...."We must have bred carrier to carrier, particularly when you look at the pedigrees and see dogs identified as carriers can feature many times on both sides"




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