Problems with my setter on leash...help!!!!!!

[Caroline Black]

Hi,
My partner and i have a beautiful sweet 9 month old male irish setter called Pepper. He walks very well for my partner, but with me, he just pulls and pulls and pulls. I have tried treats, a toy ...everything but makes no difference...its almost like when he sees me taking him out its like...cool, party time!!!!
We had a weekends training where the trainer told us to keep him on a long long lead when in the countryside...but not to set him free AT ALL until you feel totally confident he will come back. However i don't know if we will ever get to this stage. What do you all do when out in the open with your young setter. He needs to run, but its difficult to give him what he needs while on a lead.
We also live in an apartment without a garden...which doesn't help matters. He goes out with either of us approx 3-4 times a day for walks of between 30-45 minutes each time. I feel he is capable of a lot more exercise though! He does love swimming, and a good run in the doggie park...so thanks god for doggie parks at least!!!
Apart from that, he is extremely affectionate and adorable...any tips greatly appreciated.....
Caroline

[Fran Griffin]

Hi Caroline

It is a shame you are not in the UK otherwise I would suggest you come to me for a one to one session.

I train my youngsters to come when called right from their earliest days, and also have them whistle trained. The longer you leave it, the more frustrations you are going to encounter, and teaching a dog to walk on a loose lead when it isn't having some good free time off to burn off some excess energy can be very difficult. I see this all the time with people who come to us with Springer Spaniels with lead pulling issues.

If you can email me privately I can send you our lead walking handout and also our recall handout. If the dog is really bad on the lead, we recommend using the Black Dog Infin8 headcollar as an aid until you know what you are doing, and the dog starts understanding what is required too. We also use the Bunjee-Puppee leashes as training aids, and I am sure you can find out where to get them from my putting those product names into google.

What I can also do, is perhaps video a lead training session we are currently running with a young Pointer and put that video up on our youtube channel - if the dogs owners consent to this. It will give you a good idea as to how to get results and how the Bunjee-Puppee leashes ought to be used.

Fran

[Caroline Black]

Hi there...thankyou so much for your advice. I have tried the halti before, and yes it kind of works, but i get the feeling that it isn't actually teaching him to behave well on the lead, it feels more like he doesn't have the choice. Could you explain to me how the other lead you mentioned works? I checked online and it seems to be elastic, but how does this teach him to walk properly, i thought in reading it, that it could have the opposite effect...ie. make him pull more?!!

And also, do you have any thoughts on what i mentioned about having him out in the countryside / setting him free or not. Basically he will come...as long as theres nothing more interesting!!! But if he spots something, or gets a whiff of something, he'll be off!!! Its tough, because we want to give him a good run, but are afraid to let him totally free.......

[Teresa]

Hi,
Very good question you asked!
As the leash pulling, i don't believe i can help you, just add another question: I'll soon be walking with two dogs on my own on a leash, can anyone give me some tips on how to do it without involuntarily becoming a musher (i am really thin, heh)
As the walking free, when i started letting Pitanga run free, i did it in fenced parks, but really large ones, where she would no notice the fences and always had a really good treat for her with me, so that when the time came, i was always more interesting than everything else! then very gradually, i reduced the interest on me, but kept recalling and today, I can go anywhere with her loose and recall without any problem! Maybe not the best or most correct solution, but this really worked for me!
Teresa

[eva]

Hi Caroline! I am probably not the right person to give advice, because watching me walking my four girls looks sometimes adventurous:-). Just try not to despair and keep watching your little "problem" with humour.
You said, he is very affectionate and adorable, that means you and he have a strong bond, now outdoors with all those smells and opportunities the strong bond can become a fragile silk...
I think, you can ask of him to walk good on a lead, as good as he does it with your partner, and I would use the Halti till your are on the point where you can let him run free. A walk as meant as a walk with the Halti I would think as cruel, just for a short distance , in the village it is o.k. but not in the countryside.
You should look for a "boring" place with no wildlife , not to many walkers, horses, sheep and so on, and I would daily let him run free there, they need a free run to be happy in my opinion, and afterwards they are so happy, and they have sooooooo much energy. In the nature you have to be interesting and as active as possible, if you just walk or daydream or sit on a stone you are boring for the dog, try to hide behind trees, kneel down and do as you would find something very interesting ( a piece of ham, cheese) and when you dog comes and wants something, don`t share, but keep yourself busy, and sometimes you let him get something, but not everytime. And very important, if your dogs comes to you- never just grab him on the collar and put the leash on, let him run again free, the important thing is;he has to look where you are , and not you have to look out for him - I know all this is easier said than done, but he is still so young,and in 2 years time you will have another dog.And try to be speedy as well, as he is still young not for a long distance , but make yourself interesting with a bike, or with his favourite toy, just use your imagination, and don`t call him many times, once in a loud cheery voice and than if he doesn`t come hurry to hide. Use this call at home, and praise him a lot if he finds you in the bathroom,under the bed , behind a chair, and make a ballout of it. Whenever you call it is great. And always praise him when he comes to you, even if you had to wait or he did something you did not like, coming to you must always be a good experience.
I don`t know how the daily life in your country is, but a good idea for me would also be, take the dog daily or as often as possible with the car to the doggie park,let him run half an hour, and than when his energy isn`t anymore at his peak go some miles on a lead, a long lead, some people advise to stay still, to stop walking as soon as the dog pulls, well with mine it never has worked, I would walk in snailspeed;-)).
Life with a setter is an adventure and they are not an easy breed (but we know they are extra special and worth the effort!!), but such a young male needs his daily galopp to develop muscles, to develop his spirit to live his zest for life.
And as I always say;patience is everything!! with kids and dogs!!!! ( I hope you won`t listen to anyone who will try to convince you to treat him rough, strict yes but I think no animal needs a firm hand, they need understanding, knowledge from as humans!)
Have fun and hey; when I took my driving lessons my teacher said, he never saw someone with such trained forearms:-)).
Bye eva
Ps: at age 8-9 they probably slow down a bit, at least all mine did so....

[Barbara]

Full of good advice, Eva and I fully endorse what you say. I used to, and still do play hide and seek with my boys. surprsingly great fun for us all. I also turn in the opposite direction if my boys get too far ahead, I say 'this way' and they coming running back. My boys think they are taking me for a walk and like to stay ahead, but if you keep changing directions they tend to keep more of an eye on you and eventually once you change directions your dog will follow too without needing to say anything;-))
As for leash (lead) training you need to find a way that is comfortable to you and your dog. Both my boys needed a different approach and I found the best way by following Cesar Millans method and adapting it for my use. I use a small width rope slip collar and a 4ft soft 1" wide lead. The slip collar is kept up behind the ears - but not too tight - and then the lead is held in my right hand across my body to the dog on my left. Walk at a steady pace and don't left your dog sniff at anything until you decide where he goes to do his business. I found this method so much easier with my boys and when we were training my boys always came out top of the class for their lead work. It is by no means a quick fix and takes a while to adjust - and eventually the dog settles comfortably on a loose lead. Previous advice given on lead training is also very sound and only you and your dog can decide which is best for you. May be you will use a combination. Good luck and enjoy trying out the various options.

[eva]

...sorry forgot something; saw on your profile picture his collar, don`t think they are good, would buy a leather collar , they are dangerous , best regards eva

[Caroline Black]

Hi Eva, in reply to your message about his collar....it isn't actually a choke collar as one might think...its just a regular one, but made of metal/steel....and the trainer we had here recommended it ...this was his technique (not sure if i agree with it)....when he pulls you give a very brief 'tak-tak' (a jerk downwards, and then release very quickly) so you don't harm the dog in any way, just give him a bit of a surprise (heightened by the sound of the collar ) which refocuses him on you....well firstly i can't do it...as the 'tak-tak' has no effect on Pepper whatsoever, and i think there must be a better way.
Anyway he has a lovely brown leather collar these days......makes him look very distinguished!!!!! (but my guy still uses the metal one for walks)

[Fran Griffin]

Hi again Caroline. Teresa gives a good reply on the free running training. I always start off in safe secure areas, and train my dogs whilst they are hungry. I start by taking out high value food rewards, eg, liver cake, hot dog sausages, chopped cheese ect.

Everything I do is contained in the recall handout I can send you via an email attachment. I gradually build this up until my dogs can free run in just about every situation. They also know the instant stop whistle if I feel they are getting too far ahead of me.

The Infin8 head collar I mentioned is very different to the Halti. It fits much better for one thing so the dog doesn't resist anywhere near so much. Also the lead point is situated at the top of the neck near the skull rather than under the chin. Believe you me, we have had some horrendous lead pulling Spaniels and Collies come into our school, whose owners have gained excellent control, and been able to train the dog whilst it is on the Infin8,. Eventually they have succeeded in getting the same results without headcollar. We actually use clicker training to teach the dog to walk in position. As I say, I will ask Jackson the Pointers owners on Saturday if I can video what we are doing there and put it up on youtube. If they don't agree to it, I will soon no doubt find somebody who wont be afraid to go on a public video. The method is quite difficult to describe, I do my best in our detailed handout, but there is nothing like the practical experience.

With regards to the Bunjee-Puppee, yes, unless you know how to use it, you can end up with a boomeraging dog. When I find our stoodge dog to do the video, I will show how it ought to be used.

Fran

[Caroline Black]

Thankyou so much for your advice!!!!

[Caroline Black]

Wow im getting bogged down with collar and harness info on the web..there really is so much choice out there!!!! has anyone heard of a canny collar, or a kumfi stop pull harness?

[Fran Griffin]

Yes, the Canny is quite similar to the Infin8, in that it leads from the back of the head, instead of under the chin. Easier to put on, but not such a comfortable fit for most dogs.

The Comfi's are a bit too much like the Halti imho and I really don't rate Halti's much at all, as I have seen some extremely bad fitting, slippages and goodness knows what else.

The Gentle leader was once our preferred choice, but again, many dogs would never accept wearing them.

There are many varieties out there, many of which we have tried. As with any training aid, there is no such thing as a "one size glove fits all" scenario, but the Infin8 comes the closest.

Fran

[Nicole Wilson]

Yes, canny collars are quite popular over here. It seems to work for pointers and setters :-) There are also Halti harnesses which work quite well.