Playfull Puppy or Stressful Puppy???

[Petros]

We go for walks and there is nobody around but me. so he runs around and eventually comes back and circles around me barking, I growl back at him and try to catch him. otherwise he will be on my ankles with his teeth. But he eventually gives up or gets destracted by something around. He is 5 months old. Is it because he is stressful of all the things around and me giving him freedom? or he wants to play?

Have any of you experienced this?
I do understand many of you have more than one setter which may be helpfull but I have only one.

A week ago I was more stricked with him. demanding all the comands that I give him, not giving one slip up. putting him on a leash before he does something wrong. if he sits on a chair, take it over and sit on it. and all other things. and he seemed to be calm for that whole week. but know again he barks has started to dig the garden and when I am not there he gets away with it.

BTW. what sort of games do you guys play with the dogs. I do play fetch but he doesnt fetch, If i through a stick he will run after it but carry it around with him or lay down and chew it...
any other suggestions?

[ursula wilby]

Please dont TEACH these puppies to become aggressive!

If you want to clean paws, brush or whatever...DO IT!
Dont let the puppy win or he will have learned a lesson on how to behave in the future if there is anything that he does not care for.
If you are frightened he will bite, wear work-gloves, stay calm and just ignore the puppies bahaviour.
Chastising can (depending on your behaviour) just make matters worse.

[colette tuite]

Petros and Susan L i am shocked to read what your puppy is doing to both of you.Biting or barring their teeth with their lip up is not acceptable behaviour for a puppy towards its Master.Puppies often do play very rough in the den ,but you need to teach them that this behaviour is not acceptable.I do advise people taking a puppy not to let it bite.If it does i would give it a short sharp smack on its nose.That stops the puppy mid track and i have never had to do it more than once. The puppy gets the message straight away.I do not usually agree with smacking but this is the one example where i think it is necessary.I am very affectionate with my dogs and spend considerable time praising them so do not feel the chastisement harms the puppy in any way..If you do not stop this behaviour it will only get worse and could even lead to you becoming frightened of your animal if it decides that it doesnt want to get of a chair for example. and growls or lifts its lip at you.The next stage is biting! Pardon the pun but Nip it in the bud now!

[Sue and Cash]

Hi Colette
I have had dogs my whole life and this is my fourth IS, and nipping playfully is part of the puppy's age. It is not curled lip, vicious, it is playfully done. Of course I do not allow it. Cash is sharply told NO and if it happens during play, I walk away from him, playtime is over. He is actually the least nippy puppy I have ever owned. When I am wiping his feet, he starts tugging on the towel and then my hands in play. I appreciate what you advise but I just wanted to reply that it is not in an aggressive manner, but rather everything is play to him and he seems to think this is a playtime activity rather than a chore. He is very balanced and sensitive to my cry out in pain should he nip down too hard. He stops. I feel that is how they learn bite inhabition, Puppies learn the world through their mouths. I never said my dog curled his lip, because he never has! I understand they learn how hard they can use their mouths with humans and other dogs often from the littermates and the mother. Cash's mom died when he was 10 days old. So perhaps he needs to learn it now from me, but even then, he is less nippy than my last two puppies were.

[danielle rowles]

Not sure how to put this in the best way.
Petros, I believe your pups behaviour to you is related to the fact that it hurts when you touch it and the only way he can tell you this is by either growling, nipping etc, I agree with Ursula, you must carry on with what your doing since it is important that it is kept clean and also important that you are able to groom him and check him over. However, I do not agree with this type of behaviour that you should smack him, he is trying to tell you that it hurts and then you tell him off for using the only way he know hows to comunicate what he's feeling, no no no!!
On Saturday my puppy had a very swollen foot which could of been caused by many things, he let me feel the paw, leg, pads, all over, but when I reached the bit that was hurting he gave a whimper, tried to nip me and pulled his leg away, he did all of this simply because it HURT and it was his way of telling me this. If I smacked him and told him this was naughty so that he wouldn't do it again how am I going to know which bit hurts?? A few days later his is perfectly happy with me looking at the paw and cleaning it and wrapping it up. If your puppy is showing true aggresion then a trip to the vets may be in order to figure out the cause of the problem.
Yes, I use salt water, same as I use on me, the cats, the horses or the dogs, been using salt water for nearly 30 years, and even the vet on Monday said to use salt water twice a day to clean it as it is the best thing for deep cleaning and drawing out infection, so if its good for my vet, its good for me!!!
Susan, your doing exactly the right thing with your pup, if he nips too hard do a very shrill "ouch". Puppies in a litter squeal when play gets to rough and you are reinforcing this.
Thats my 2pence worth!!

[Teresa]

I actually believe that this is a thin line we are talking about!

A heathy puppie should allow the master to move it, pick it up, brush and whatever the master feels it is necessary to do. And this daily routine should go smoothly. But a hurt dog specially a pup can have an agressive reaction when in pain. but even then, there is a point the dog should not cross.

Romã broke her leg when she was 8 weeks old. As I picked her up and tried to feel the leg, she bit me so hard i still have the marks in my hands (this was 5 months ago!). Obviously i did not punish my puppie for this behavior, it was clear that she was in a lot of pain. Later on, when i had to do physical therapy to the leg, I was aware that she still had some pain, and she had a similar reaction. That time i did not allow it I allowed her to yelp, to take her leg away but never, never would i allow teeth in my body, i would firmly say "NO" and start all over again. After 3 days of some very unhelpful physical therapy, eventually she learned how to express her pain without becoming agressive towards me, but I had to keep in mind that her complinst meant something and i would ease up whenever she complained. From that day on, I was aware she would tell me how far i could go everyday, and it worked wonderfully.

[colette tuite]

I understood from Petros,s comment "Then I tried to brush him, but he got angry again at me, and had that hungry wolf face with the lips up, showing his teeth and biting hard." that this was a separate incident from the one where he bathed his sore pad.His behaviour could be excusable if he was in pain,however what excuse would you make for the brushing incident.It would appear that he might exhibit this behaviour any time he does,nt want to do something.
I have encountered people who have let their puppy continue to bite them and then they have wanted to rehome same pup for mouthing and biting their children at a later time.So my advice was directed to prevention rather than cure!

[Petros]

If we are talking about the wound cleaning, The first time round he lets me put the cotton with salted water on him. as soon as it sinks I try and do it again, so I rub some of the dirt of, and he goes in to that mode. I really do not advise anyone smaking their dogs no mater how hard, soft or where. wheter your finge or whaterver.
As I said, he will be my companion when going out for hunts, and I definately dont want to run the risk of him backing away when he comes to retrieve the bird, after all, where is the fun in that. if its a gundog, it should be a gundog all the way not part, more importantly he should not be stressed out no matter what breed he is.

Colette Tuite, nice reference back to the brushing. Everybody got caried away with the hurting pad.
I tried to brush him, (tho I have not adjusted him to burshing as I dont do it offten) so he tried to do the same bitting and running away as I touched him with the brush on the coat, Especially on the legs.
So I grabed him and put my arm around his neck and my hand on the back next to the tail, and him pressed one side on my chest. like I am huging him. and gently started to stroke him from the back of the front hinds and so on. He allowed it. But I had to take it slow.

Achi, was quite mouthy when little. he isnt now. but he has a behaviour that when he is overexcited and there is nothing to do, he barks at me either to play or to take him walking, but he does not get any of them when he is doing that. at the same time if I dont do anything he would circle around me, and may somtimes try and grab my pants. If he does it, he better run. If I catch him I dont smack him. i just put him on the ground. IF this happens around the house. He gets the crate, I take him out, he has cooled off. If I am outside. welll he is pritty fast, If he comes barking too close too bad for him if he is a bit out of my reach, I walk away.... he can run after me if he wants. but he aint getting what he wants even if he had a gun pointed in my head.

[Sue and Cash]

My last setter would nip at me even as an adult if he was hurt and I touch that spot. Not curled lip but I am sure the puppy was trying to tell you I HURT. I think some are more strong willed pups than others. Cash is soft, very soft. He doesn't challenge me. Sounds like your dog is challenging you and you are of the mind set he will learn now who is in charge. Some puppies need a stronger, firmer lesson perhaps. I won't pretend to be an expert by any means. Mine already knows who is boss. Who controls the good things in this house, like the bed, the treats, the toys and the food. But I have others in the past who needed to learn it. I had a Brittany who was the best dog in the world and I remember as a puppy he bit me hard when I tried to remove him from our bed that I was getting into. He didn't like to be disturbed when sleeping. My husband, much to my horror, tossed that puppy off the bed firmly, not in a way to hurt him! That pup never did that again EVER. And wound up to be the best dog I have owned. So my point was sometimes they have it mixed up who controls things.

[Petros]

For the sake of an UpDate.

Achi's paw is getting better.

Tho on the topic of stress and agression that we all were discussing. He has gone worse. He has had periods before where he was mouthy but not like this. This last week has been (F""":"ED up) excuse my language. but he has been more agressive than ever. When I tell him of he barks. If I catch him by the collar he grabs.

2 days ago I let him run in the park, where I said to myself that I would not give him comands, just let him be a puppy and enjoy the run. but for the whole 60-90 minutes he did not stop but run. he ate other dogs poo, he rolled in them. he thrashed every single stick that he saw. he had a run with other dogs. and I did not give him a single comand.

It came time for us to go home, so I sat down on the grass and waited for him to come to me at his on discretion. he didnt. so as he sat down on the grass and put his had down I went over and got him by the collar and he bit me hard. so I bit him to. Pined him down and he started wining., and so on. for the next 20 minutes untill I got up and walked him home. and left him until the evening without me, coz we both needed to cool off.

I imediately called a behaviourist. (jee they are a RIP OFFF) but she said that she would help and have a gurantee for life. So I guess she is comming over soon sometimes, coz the dog is not headed in a good road. and if she cannot help well I got her guarantee and if she has to I will make her sleep with him until she gets it Right :) hahahaha...

he is a lovely dog. but under alot of stress and I admit that I am the cause because of inexperience, so wee will see how we go with the professional. and keep you updated

[Louise Perry]

Oh my god, you bit him! The whole thing sounds dreadful and I am glad you have called for help as you are obviously under a lot if stress. I think you must just have a wilful pup like mine, who needs to be taught who the boss is. I hope the behaviourist helps you both.

[Petros]

I dont mean Bit him with my own teeth, ( tho I have done It when I got very angry with him and I thought It would do any different then pin him down. So one time I got down and Got him by the neck when he was biting me...) do it didnt help.

What I ment was that I got him with my hand in his neck as if I was bitting him.

But yea.... the pup is constantly checking something out. chassing flies. chassing microscopic bugs that are on the wall, he has started chewing on things like he has never done before. 5 minutes on the leash and after that he is uncontrolable, of which 2 weeks ago he was walking fine, 6am he starts barking at the bells of my neighbours cats, or when my neighbour leaves with the car for work.... so there are so many signs of stress, and it really worries me coz they are escalating so quickly.

[Louise Perry]

Oh, I see - sorry I thought you actually meant a physical bite! Gosh his behaviour is a tad erratic. Good luck and hope it calms soon , once you are told how to deal with it.