I dedicate this to you Ossian (Tongue & Cheek of course)

[Louise Perry]

I got of the computer and thought 'no I am not going to start a disscusion on this one') and popped along to my vets instead. I asked the receptionist if they did chemical castration and if so how much etc. She didn't know what is was or had even heard of it. So she kindly went to ask the vet. I said if he was busy (counting his money) then I could pop in when convienient. She said no don't worry and wait where I was.
On her return she informed me that yes they do do it and I had to book a consultation with the vet. Oh yep I understood what that meant £££££££££££'s, £33 just for a five min chat!!!!!
Now I am going to go back to the computer and do some research and for free!
I can't believe some vets. Reuben is well known there and we have spent thousands with them (including our cats too). Am I being niave here? Gosh it's made
me cross!

[Ossian]

Louise I hang my head!

To be honest if you had come on asking about chemical castration I would heve been interested in the responses!! That isnt a place I have ever been.

Share what you find... or better yet start a thread about the Dick Turpins that call themselves vets!! I will not disagree with you there!!

[Louise Perry]

Well I went to another local vet in nailsea and asked if they had information on chemical castration and their response was basically a lecture in getting Reuben castrated! I told them that I wasn't sure if I wanted to do this and got another lecture about the welfare of the dog etc! I told them that he is MY dog and I have the right to choose and not be bullied into anything... Can't believe these vets. grrrrrrrrrrrr

[Ossian]

Take my hat off to you Sue. these are tough calls and you will always get people who neglect.

It makes you appreciate your own guys even more and makes you hate the people who "dont give a stuff" because you know how much a dog has to give

But its where the pendulum swings and if we can find a balance.

You talk about the neglected animals but we have many animals which have ended up in shelters because owners couldnt keep them, they couldnt handle them, coudnt train, couldnt afford them and some who just couldnt be bothered with them

Choosing and owning a dog shold be a pleasurable experience and somehow it can become a real worry, a chore, filled with anxiety and when I spoke about "mommy and toddler" it was meant to be a wake up call. It was starting to read like a group of mums who worried about everything!

Someone said recently puppies are like children.... the first baby you worry yourself sick over, everything should be perfect and by the time you get to the second one you would wipe its face with the floor cloth!!!

Just let the dog be a dog and enjoy living together.

[ursula wilby]

I must say that it scares me to read some of the questions and also replies on this site.

It is as if quite a few people will go and buy a dog without ever thinking about how a dog "works" and what makes it tick.
I personally question future puppy-buyers a lot and try to find out their expectations and reasons for wanting an irish setter (or any dog for that matter).
And then try to see if they are suitable.
Quite a few are not...
Not due to them not being kind to their dogs, but more due to them looking at dogs as if they are babies.
Somewhat more hairy than human ones, but real babies none the less.
Yet even an irish setter is a dog!

And as Ossian says...lots of dogs end up being rehomed due to the fact that owners did not have a clue how to handle/train them.

That goes for ALL breeds...regardless of size...

[Louise Perry]

Yes Sue, i am having to be careful at the moment with Reuben too as he is getting some unwanted attention from other males. Twice this week it has happened - first a huge GSD that was eyeballing Reuben up and Reuben was really scared and didnt want to walk by. My husband had to walk by virtually pulling Reuben to get past as quick as possible My hubby said that in his head he was already working out what to do if the GSD attacked. Now Reuben is hardly ever scared of other dogs but he must have sensed the stand off or something. Then Tuesday whilst out with my trainer, she started telling me to walk quickly with Reuben and go to the car. I didnt realise why at first but a rather large 'Bordeux' (think it was that breed) was approaching towards reuben (off lead) and was almost homing in on him and not in a friendly way! My trainer grabbed the other dog by the collar before he got to Reuben and awaited for the owners to come and get him. Now my trainer foresaw this and was obviously being cautious preventing a possible confrontational situation. Now I am not sure what would have happened but I am beginning to see this happening more often and there is a certain body language the other dogs have that i hadnt really seen before - its quite eerie.
Anyway i have to be more vigilant and am a little nervous about it (not that I show Reuben) as I use to be wary/fearful of dogs and thats partly why I got an IS as they have such a fantastic temperament. Also i was never around dogs when younger and it is a whole new experience for me.
But I have to say this unwanted attention is making me a little anxious and partly because I still have a slight fear of dogs and would like to feel confident that I would and could protect Reuben, should anything happen.
OH MY GOODNESS REUBEN HAS JUST DONE THE MOST AWFUL SMELL AGAIN TONIGHT!!!!!!!!
Sorry but just couldnt help myself type that and apologise for too much information but goodness, no one warned me about that!, lol

[Sue and Cash]

Good discussion going. Yes Susan (me) dreams of her life with four setters who keep each other company, intact, who can just be free to run the land I own. Reality isn't that! Luckily the pit bulls are few at our park but lots of boxers, mastiff and many more than would make mince meat out of most of the sporting breeds there. We don't have fights, scuffles on occassion. A few times dog have been bit, a search and rescue GSD just bit a border collie last week unprovoked and both were fixed females. I keep with my own groups and avoid situations. Neutering keeps me at a better safer angle. Honestly unless your showing your male, most Americans I know look at the intact males and we always think the same thing "Husband thinks they are cutting his off". Until the past year or so, I was shocked that it was considered barbaric and up until that time it was always drilled into us it was healthier to do it. I know now that isn't the case. Poor Cash will be getting done within a few weeks time I think. He is humpty dumpty with his stuffed bear a bit too often lately and if I bend down to mop up the floor, he is on me sometimes! Louise vets nickle and dime you to death. We are in a wellness plan which takes some of that expense off us. Covers all his shots, neutering, office visits and discounts on medications for under 300.00 a year. Not bad! If my dog get seriously ill, then I go to specialists and don't bother with the regular vet because they don't know enough and waste too much time on un needed tests and meds. i never heard of chemical castration either though.

[Susan Stone]

Cornelia, I have done the same myself... but please be warned, the effect can be quite different from what you anticipate: one day your girl may well say: 'The boss is raring for a fight with that other dog, I'll join in and help her!' and before you realize you have an agressive dog yourself, waiting to charge at others as she is sure of the support she has from the other end of the lead...

Many years ago, I once shouted at a GSD coming towards us from a farm. Shannon joined in and charged! Luckily no real fight started but I am extremely careful since that episode. Obviously with males it could be worse. It is usually quite enough to stand between your dog and the approaching dog and give him a nasty look!

[Sue and Cash]

That is an audition I am sure your glad he failed! I bought this can of stuff that you clip to your belt and use if your need to stop an attacking dog but it isn't mace, it is safer. Postmen use it they said. I am sure in a panic should I need it, Cash and I will get a face full! I guess I should try it out on a calm day to be sure I know how it aims etc. I don't take it in the dog park but maybe I should. No much good in my glove box of my car. I got it for walking in the neighborhood, I am more fearful then for some reason. Many years ago a Rottweiler jumped a fence and charge at my puppy and I on our walk. I had my then toddler with us on a bike and I was frozen in fear grabbing for my son and puppy at the same time. Luckily the dog only charged and when I yelled it stopped and ran back home. I did call the police on the people though so that it was documented that their fence wasn't high enough.

[Jo Ottinger]

I have not had a problem yet with Hawk and other dogs. At the dog park he just goes running around and stays away from dogs that are being to rough. Hawk does not hump or show any bad male habits yet and he is 16 months. Could be because he lives with two girls not sure. Myself I will be keeping him intact and I do get the spay and neuter stories all the time. I have had dogs all my life and have spayed and neutered until I got Hawk. The last Irish I had I lost at two from Lupus so I panic whenever Hawk or the girls get ill and rush them to the vets. Have not had my vet charge me for just talking to her about treatments. Here in California we have been fighting spay and neuter bills for the last several years and they are also trying to pass a bill that will require rabbies shot for any dog over three months.

[ursula wilby]

Quite a few of the swedish top-dogs in obedience are castrated so that they will focus on one thing only. And no doubt this will be the same in most countries.

To me, this is not quite ethical.
Operating on a dog so that you (I am not pointing at you, Fran but rather looking at the whole picture) can win personal glory...after all that is the aim of high-level competition, is it not?

You can not even say that the competitions are for the future of the breed or whatever...not if you remove the parts that give the dog a chance to breed.

[Louise Perry]

Hi Fran, I am too interested in the superlorin implant as Reuben is so randy! I am starting college in September 3 days a week and will be relying on a dog walker to come in and take Reuben out at lunchtime for an hour or so. It worrys me that they may problems with him running or handling him etc. And some dog walkers don't accept un netuered dogs. It maybe family members that will be helping out but regardless of who it is, I don't want them to have an absolute nightmare time with him. My hours won't be all day but prob leave house at 8.30 and back between 3 & 4 pm.
I just wonder if there are any long term side effects or complications with the implant. From what I have researched the only temporary side effect is the testicles shrink and I can live with that as he is known as "Big Balls" in Nailsea!!!

[Sue and Cash]

Now this has totally peaked my interest. If it stops testosterone production, is that not the same from a health standpoint as neutering. The leave intact argument being that it is healthier, less bone cancer and longer life spans. I was going to look into it as an option but now I am not sure it is an option if leaving him intact due to fears of his getting sick. As far as those of you on here that breed, I understand using it so that you might use them for breeding later on. But people like me who leave the breeding to the show people, and thank goodness for you all, is there going to be any advantage to me using an implant versus neutering from a health standpoint only? I am getting close to booking his appointment. I would like to wait till he is a year old and been told better to wait till he get's his height so he isn't leggy instead etc. But now I am told if your going to do it, do it before he gets randy. Sigh....... I am not looking forward to this!