dry food - help?

[silvia]

Hi all!

 

I think I need some advise now. At some point it looked to me that several people in UK are enthustiastic about Royal Canin, and I have been recommended this food (maxi junior at moment) from all vets, friends, trainers I met, including the breeders of Oberon but not only, also a few great other breeders. So I stick on it and Oberon loves it! (he's a great and enthusiastic eater actually ;)

 

Browsing around I found  this link as a reply to one of the Cristine discussion www.dogfoodanalysis.com and actually, if you have a look,  here this product is not recommended at all (and you see the point..) !

 

On the other hand, most of the products that are considered "5-6 stars" on that link are either:  

 

- very high in protein, typically 35-40%  (well, because of the no grain issue - but I knew that for a puppy 6months old a very high protein content can lead to a too fast growth, so joints do not have the time to  adjust)

 

- or they contains fat or other ingredients and their review contains a caveat that they can led to bloat, so they are not suggested for large breeds

 

On the top, royal canin seems to produce just 1 food (per breed/age or type of dog), while this web site suggests to rotate different flavours (fish. chicken, etc) over the months

 

I am confused now.. basically, if I understand correctly, we should be looking for a food with a) not too much proteins because of the small age, b) but with less grain, c) with a good selection of flavours so we can rotate and b) free of too much fat or additives that are supposed to increase the bloat probability..

 

ARGH :) Cristine seems to have a strong experience in food research: maybe you or somebody else went through similar troubles and can help with this? We like to feed Oberon with dry food only (meat occasionally during the week) but which one is the best for his needs in your experience?

 

Thanks!!!

best.

 

Silvia

  

[silvia]

ps: according to that web site (not sure how trustable is it) the main concerns against royal canin are the grains quality/amount and the beet pulp as ingredient, same points are made against Arden Grange and other brands highly considered here in the UK- at least as far as I know...

It looks to me that the main point they made is always against products with less protein (20-26%) and more grains, while those with high meat contents (35-40%) are always more graded. This is understandable, but do we really have to go for high protein contents at 6 months age?

I am happy to move Oberon from his adored Royal Canin meal, since I really dont want to make mistake at this delicate age in particular.. :( but I am a bit concerned whether these grades just reflect menthality or cultural differences in different countries or are they really objectives..

thanks for your help, I am sure this post will lead a flow of discussion since we all seem to have a strong concern about IS feeding:)

best,
silvia

[Laura Kolbach]

please read this, might help you as well to reconsider your view on proteins (and other things as well):
http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/ORIJEN_White_Paper.pdf (it is a long reading but worth it if you take your food research seriously :-) )

[Carmel Murphy]

Excellent reading Laura!! Thanks for the very usefull link;o))

[silvia]

thanks laura, I will read it!

but let me make clear: is not the protein content itlsef that makes me worry (I will be very happy to move Oberon to a high protein/no grain food when adult), but the young age: I knew that a puppy diet should have a controlled amount of protein, to allow the bones/joints to develop and adjust during the growth

so my concern was about having a high protein diet at 6 months age.. besides, I wish the opinion of other people on the royal canin/arden range kind of foods, since they seems to be very good at least at a young age, and I understand that several blogger are happy with those, so I am a bit confused..

thanks a lot !!!!

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Interesting and well written paper, thanks.
Just a little cynical as it is published by Orijen, I would bemore impressed if it had been written/published by an independent researcher
Not sure about very high protein content, some of my very active younger dogs get very high on a diet which is too high protein. I tried CSJ Rocket Fuel (not as high protein as Orijen) and the dogs did very well on it, and had beautiful shiny coats, but my younger male stud dog was fairly swinging from the chandeliers and very difficult to handle in the show ring, he calmed down a little when he went back to a mix of raw meat , bones, rice, barley, peas, lentils, vegetables and a 27% Red Mills dry food sold for racing greyhounds, very inexpensive at around £14 a sack
I find my very high energy dogs need some carbohydrate, they would be too thin without it
Always interesting to see what dogs choose to steal from the kitchen when they think they are not being observed . Bread is a favourite, also vegetables and fruit like broccoli and avocadoes, green peppers, pears, grapes, eggs raw or hardboiled
I can see that wild canids dont eat carbohydrates , as they are not available or palatable in their raw state, but domestic dogs who have access to cooked/processed carbohydrates seem to like and do OK on them

[Laura Kolbach]

agree, would be better if it had been written by an independent researcher - but if you look at www.dogfoodanalysis.com, they also rate Orijen 6-star, so there you can get an independent view as well.
i have been feeding it for years now besides raw meat and bones and veggies and never had any problems. that's why i recommend it to anybody else. all my doggie friends that tried it, never looked back. :-) (and no, I don't own the company... and i would feed the other 6-star products as well if they were available in my little country.

[Dixie Cruise]

Just as a humorous aside ... MY setter's favorite stolen snack is toilet paper ... go figure!! And it tastes better if you decoratively unwind the roll all over the place before you partake (apparently)!!

[silvia]

Oh well.. we just had a summer dinner with ham and melon in the terrace.. Oberon stolen the melon and left the ham. I think he recognised the mistake since he's been "punished" for not a great deal, but just to be coherent he ate the piece of melon till the end, pretending he was happy with it ... poor boy, such a poor deal ;)

[Laura Kolbach]

Gennadi, Orijen is the better version of Acana, made by the same manufacturer... Acana that you feed yourself to your dog... The article is a whitepaper, intended to give information. you can go to their website and check the ingredients and calories provided.

[silvia]

Hi Laura, i completely understand your point, thanks a lot, and I am glad is working so well with you!! still my question was about the real necessity, prompted by some links on this very informative blog, to shift to a high protein food in situations in which others work well.. This confused me a bit.. still, after all your very nice answers, I am not sure there is real evidence for having to do this .. (although both diets may work very well for different dogs..)

I guess it also depends on the level of activity and personal taste/allergies of each dog... Oberon lives in a city, he's not a hunting dog, we live in London so his runs consist in about 2-3h or more walking daily in ponds and large parks as those in wimbledon and others.. Occasionally we like to chase foxes around our house in the evening;) I guess the situation is different in the case of the Gennadi or other hunters dogs, who have a real job to do each day or for adult dogs who need much more energy :)

still reading :)

the fact that chicken fat is known to cause bloat was very new to me.. (well fat in general are supposed to do this, but why chicken fat in particular?)

[Dixie Cruise]

For those of us living in cities ... a way to provide the guts of wild animals (or a close approximation) is to find "green tripe" which is the fourth stomach of a cow still full of partially digested vegetation, uncooked or processed. It can be purchased canned for our city convenience ... it is said to be very healthful addition to a dogs diet, but also very SMELLY!!

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Vets recommend Royal Canin because they make money out of selling it.
A vet practice in my area has shelves full of every type of Royal Canin on display in their waiting room and no other dog food
Have you ever known a vet recommend a dog food that they dont sell themselves?
Have you ever known a vet recommend any dog food that isnt one of the more expensive brands?
How many vets recommend feeding raw? They dont stock raw food so no money in it for them

I remain completely cynical about the marketing of dog food, and the claims of manufacturer's and vets about the content of dog food