Please watch and give me your thoughts around this... I would appreciate it

[Petros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXHFOrBbEc&feature=player_embed...

[Val Martin]

I don't think there is much more that can be said Petros.....the film says it all!

[Susan Stone]

Petros, the film Pedigree Dogs Exposed has been discussed by many people since its broadcast a couple of years ago. It is a documentary that started many controversial discussions - as you can imagine.

I prefer to move forward.

[Teresa]

After all that has been discussed about these kind of things around here, and reading some of the responses, I wonder what kind of comments your discussion will get Petros! But anyway, here are my thoughts about this:

 

I had seen this before, and I think it is meant to be a "wake up call". Its about time breeders put health first and looks later. Careless inbreeding disregarding health and focusing only on the dogs looks will only increase this kind of situations. We are at an age where so much is know about genetics that if breeders really wanted to get together to make their breeds healthier they could. I could get semen from Australia into Portugal! Puppies are being exported all over the world! It will not be that hard to find a dog that is from a similar line but with slight changes - however, no one is willing to admit there is a better sire or bitch among their competitors!

 

That been said, I also believe that this only shows one side of the coin! Obviously not all breeders have that kind of greedy vision - I'd like to believe that is just a minority! There have been a lot of efforts to map and rule out at least some of these genetic problems. I think that for breeders who are responsible and trying hard to improve their dogs health this documentary is a bit offensive - their efforts are not recognized!

And what about working pedigree dogs? Those, for obvious reasons (having to work and all) are bred according to function - and function always implies health! No one would want a blind or neurological damaged hunting dog! They are real dogs too! Their breeders are real and need real credit for their work!

Also it does not point out one of the major reasons so many of these popular breeds are now so sick: irresponsible backyard breeders - they see a dog, a bitch and a chance to sell puppies and make some easy money. And people just go ahead and buy them. I think these kind of breeders and puppy buyers are far more dangerous than a show breeder! If you are going to buy a show puppy, you WILL want to know sire and bitch heath conditions, an you will demand they are tested for all the know testable problems for the breed. There is too much time, money and effort put in a puppy like that these days, people want good healthy dogs to show, and no top breeder will risk his/hers good name and sell a sick puppy! This is the information age, everybody can find out anything on the internet!

 

One would think that Britain is the worst place to get a dog in the world, and yet we all know of some amazing looking, healthy dogs! 

 

True, I do believe there is so much more that can and should be done in order to assure we are breeding healthy dogs, but there is a lot being done as we speak! There are so many breeders working hard to produce healthy dogs! Someone should make a documentary about them! Show their work! Let people know how important genetics tests are in the breeds, teach them to demand them and only purchase from breeders that do them! And most of all, people should know how and where to find these breeders!

[Val Martin]

Very well written Teresa........

[Fran Griffin]

I agree with just about everything said Teresa. There is a lot being done with Setters, although I would like to see the area of hypothyroidism opened up and investigated more. However, there are some breeds where those involved seem to have their heads buried in concrete - let alone sand, especially a lot of people involved in German Shepherds. I truly cannot understand why so many want to preserve the roach backed look and those back legs which almost make them look like seals. Listening to those people speak makes me wonder if they have cognitive dissonance, I am sorry, but I used to have German Shepherds and it breaks my heart seeing such a noble dog being turned into something divorced from what they were, and to hear how those people are trying to preserve that look at all costs, despite the program and other pressures  they are under.

[Joel Sonnenberg]

Makes me sick, 167 views 4 replys.

The truth is this site is pro show.

So it's not me, got to be the other guy.

 

(controversial discussions)-Why not?

(I'd like to believe that is just a minority)-Kennel Club standards is no minority

(I think that for breeders who are responsible and trying hard to improve their dogs health this documentary is a bit offensive - their efforts are not recognized!)-Missing the point

(irresponsible backyard breeders)-Wrong! The show people are there to get there trophy, this is not a backwoods hillbilly dog breeder issue.

[Teresa]

Joel, I'm all for controversial discussions! They open our eyes and our minds, and allow us to learn other points of view! I think this documentary has a lot of potential to become controversial, that's exactly why I responded! Please understand that by responding to your post, I do not mean to be rude or disrespectful. I'm not even saying I disagree with you, I'm just trying to keep an interesting conversation open. As you said this has had a lot of views and very little replies!

 

A am not British and therefore am not under any kind of obligation to the Kennel Club. I also do not own any dogs that came from Britain,or even know any british breeders! Standards are no minority, of course - they are standards, how could they be minor! It is clear in the documentary that there are breeders that will stop at nothing to have a better dog - I'll just say ... PLASTIC SURGERY?!?!?!?!? Ridiculous! 

 

That does not mean they are all like that. An even if concerned breeders are only 0,00001%, I still believe we should all know who they are, and prefer their dogs - this would be one way to reduce problems - if no one would by a puppy bred from bother and sister, this cross would not be done!

And yes, it would be a lot easier to just go ahead and stop registering those litters! I think this may not be the goal of the documentary, but it is what I would like to see pointed out! People go in a fancy kennel and do not know better, unless someone warns them, and at that, this documentary does a great job! But they also need alternatives, if they want to find a healthier puppy!

Maybe it's because I'm still a student, and I like to consider myself an honest one, but everytime someone cheats and gets a better score, I can't help to wonder why I bothered in the first place. It's in the small gestures of recognition, and the littles "see, this is why YOU studied, and this is why YOU are better than him/her" that I get the motivation to keep going. I can help but feeling that the "honest hard working" breeders would appreciate some recognition for their good job, wether they are "show" breeders or "working" breeders...

 

As to backyard breeders, true, not the point of the documentary at all, but I was trying to enlarge my point of view, and they are a big part in the decreasing health in the breeds - some people still believe that a cheaper puppy is the same as a fully certified one! 

 

[Joel Sonnenberg]

I apologize for attacking you personally, unfortunately the human condition is to destroy all that is good.
It would seem that way, if you look at our environment, we humans can't leave any thing alone and be happy for what it is.
Take away human vanity,selfishness,greed, problem solved
Im sure there are many people with good intentions, but to many out for fame and personal gain.
I hate to be be so negative but it takes a disaster for us humans to make change.
Love your dog, there your best friend.

[Teresa]

I agree with you, we could use more truly good people!

No need to apologize, did not regard it as a personal attack, just a different point of view - and one I learnt from!

And yes, our dogs our our best friends, and give us so much everyday!

That should be put first, there is nothing worst than a family member sick, or in pain, and I regard all my dogs as a part of my family! And clearly, a big part of yours too! =)

[Margaret Sierakowski]

Its now three years since Pedigree Dogs Exposed was first shown in the UK, and yes it was a wake up call, it got people debating and it certainly galvanized the KC into some new initiatives. The makers of the film, Jemima Harrison and Jon Lane , were criticised for focussing on the bad aspects of pedigree dog breeding, and not on those breeders who get it right, and breed healthy dogs. They have just started work on a sequel to PDE, which has been commissioned by the BBC, and the plan is to look at what has changed since the first film, so hopefully some better things to report on this time. The new film should be on Channel 4 sometime next year

[Petros]

The thing that scares me is that from all the members here I got 8-10 people to respond with their opinions. Great, but the thing that scares me is !!!!

 

What do the others think that have kept silent? 

[Cheryl Gorey]

Petros

As Susan Stone has already advised above there has been a lot of discussion since this broadcast was televised.  This topic was placed on the forum back in 2008 when it was first broadcast and there were lots of replies.   You can look through the forums of the past and find the discussion and comments relating to it.

I believe this is just bad timing as I am sure many may revisit this topic if they were able to change their focus, but at the moment, responsible breeders and pet owners all over the world are in the process of improving the breed's health by putting all their efforts into getting their dogs DNA tested to erradicate a mutation recently identified in the breed. 

I'm sure you have been reading the other forums on this site on rcd4.  It has 514 replies, but there has been over 24 000 views of the discussion. 

 

Please don't see the fact that you haven't received many replies that people are not interested in the discussion as the dedicated breeders and pet owners that you are challenging now are the very ones who are actively doing something to improve the future health of the breed.   

 

So, I hope you will acknowledge that the dedicated irish setters owners who are members of this site are a little busy right now and as I said are being active in improving this very special breed so we can all enjoy healthy dogs for a long time to come.