As a new member I am shocked........

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I have only been a member of this site for one week and I am horrified at the thought of entering into a discussion!

I joined because I have always liked Gundogs, especially Setters of all varieties and have been thinking of owning one or maybe even two.

My friend who is a member said to me a few months ago "Bel, I have found a lovely site for Setter enthusiasts and the people on there are so nice and friendly".

I am sorry to say, after reading through some of the latest discussions, I don't share her opinion at all!

All I have read are aggressive, verbal attacks on members who do not share the opinions of a few regular contributors who gang up on anyone who dares to disagree with their point of view.

I don't know how many members there are on here, but it seems the whole site is run by a few 'know alls' who delight in making other members valuable contributions to discussions a very unpleasant experience for them.

Some on here will probably say I should hold no opinions at all because I am a 'newbie' to this site.

Well sorry, I loath bullying in any shape or form and that's what I see happening on here!

Maybe I will test the water on a site for a different gundog breed because from what I have read so far on here, setter breeders are not people I would like to have any more contact with.

[Dennis Doyle]

Annabel, a warm welcome from a novice. Not all we folk who are owned by setters are aggressive on the forums. Sadly you have to learn to ignore those who do offer their opinions perhaps more robustly than they should. I have found most to be helpful and friendly, whilst some I have found to be less than open minded and not willing to consider other points of view. Some issues can lead to some more than calm responses and it is a sad fact of life that there are folk who feel the need to offer their views more as Gospel truth rather than one person's opinion. Encouragingly, there are those of us who will simply offer a view for consideration but recognise that there are maybe other solutions as well. Sometimes there are folk who have owned setters for much longer than others, and can offer the benefit of that experience. There are some occasions though, when their responses suggest that it may be that these more enlightened folk may have simply been doing things the wrong way for a much longer time? Who knows? I am but a humble novice. More importantly, I hope you do continue with the forum and find it more helpful than you have so far. best wishes

[Laura & Andy Thorpe]

hello annabel. i have only been on the site a few days. i have not read any of the discussions yet i am just answering to your post regarding gun dogs. my dad is in a local shoot and i take my dogs beating, i have 3 irish red setters and 2 springer spaniels, my springers are brilliant at it, they listen to my commands and bring shot birds back to me. however if i take my red setters i am just embarrassed as they just go crazy even though they are trained they do not listen when i take them. i have spoke to a few people about it and i have come to the conclusion setters were originally bred for gun dogs but they are useless at it they are to highly strung and once they are let of the leads and see the birds they just chase them and if they do catch any or pick any shot ones they will not bring them back to me they just think its a game, all the people i have spoke to have said the same. i love my dogs to pieces but will not take my setters shooting any more. i breed setters and have had them all my life and i would suggest anyone who wants a gun dog to get a springer spaniel cocker spaniel or a lab. i hope you dont take this in the wrong way i just thought i would tell you, they all make great pets and i would never ever be without a red setter but they do jot make good gun dogs, i have great respect for anyone who has got a setter as a gun dog but i would always go with the dogs named above for gun dogs. hope this helps you. laura pockley x

[Pat Aldridge]

Due to no "reply" thingy I am posting here>

I hereby state categorically that I WAS NOT THE PERSON WHO REPORTED VAL MARTIN.

I do not know who reported Val Martin, & I do not want to know.

[Finding_Beau]

Hi Dee

Thank you for your response. Your words explain the reasons why I responded to Sara’s comment. Like you and many others, I have noticed the change in the ES site. Unfortunately a few bullies have the potential to destroy a reputable website. Also, as Catherine has said, this is a public website and members should behave politely towards each other. Because Pat Aldridge knows nothing about me her labelling of me as a “no-body” could verge on slander i.e. “ a malicious, false, and defamatory public statement”.  She and others should be careful what words they use and how they behave in a public forum.

As I have already said, labelling another human being as a “no-body” is bad manners and using capitals in any written communication is also bad manners because this is considered “shouting” and “aggressive behaviour”. Pat Aldridge often uses capitals in her written communications but as you have pointed out, Dee, the bullies do not think they are doing anything wrong. And, like attracts like. Those with poor manners connect with others with the same level of behaviour.

Tracy M has called me a bully and has accused me of personally insulting Pat Aldridge by calling her arrogant. A meaning of arrogant is “haughty”. If Gene has allowed Pat Aldridge to continue on this site why did she not say this? I consider the response she chose to make as haughty behaviour. This is my interpretation of arrogance. This does not make me a bully. Also, I wonder if Gene has allowed Pat Aldridge to continue on this site. I am going to write to him as soon as I have finished my response to find out.

In the previous forum discussion in November 2011 when I was bullied, Tracy M said that I had provoked Pat Aldridge and others. This is untrue. Also Tracy M made comments about my English Setter, Hobson in another forum discussion which were way off the mark. She did not consider that she could be wrong even though she knows very little about Hobson or myself.

Tracy M has said that I “have dug this back up”. I do not like what is happening to ES and I am entitled to “dig this back up” if I choose. This is freedom of speech. Unlike some members, I do tell the truth.

I agree with Dee that life is difficult enough but sometimes one must take a stand. There is too much bullying in our society and I believe this is directly related to the loss of good manners and old-fashioned values. I believe this current forum discussion is important even though it has been “dug back up”.

PS My internet connection is playing up. I had to write this in Word and copy and paste. Since this time, more comments have been made which I have not yet read. I am responding to Dee's initial comment. Forum discussions can become confusing because of where comments are placed.

[Finding_Beau]

What in the world have I said in my response to Dee that gives you the opinion that I consider myself a victim and that I am trying to present myself as a victim. I can assure you this is not the way I feel about myself and therefore I know my words have not portrayed this. Unfortunately you are not “listening” to what I am writing. Also, you must live in a cocoon if you do not know that bullying has now become prevalent in every society in every country in the world. You say you are done with this discussion. I am not done when a member like you writes words about me that are not true. BTW I did not dig up this forum discussion and what you do mean by “stirring things up”. Do you mean that you do not like to hear an opinion that does not agree with your own? I’ll check back later this evening for any updates to this discussion.

[Pat Aldridge]

"Because Pat Aldridge knows nothing about me her labelling of me as a “no-body” could verge on slander i.e. “ a malicious, false, and defamatory public statement”. 

I have made no such statement at all.  That comment was made by another poster further up.

[Pat Aldridge]

I misread your post. Apologies.

[Finding_Beau]

Hi Pat

Trying to track comments in forum discussions is difficult but I think you were replying to me. I accept your apology and I sincerely hope we can leave the "no-body" issue in the past. Life is too short. I have had more than my share of grief. None of us knows when our "time" will come. We are fortunate if we are given some time to prepare for when our loved ones are going to die. I did not have this "time" with Hammer. I am certain all of us want to spend our days sharing happy and positive moments.

Susan

[Cheryl Gorey]

I have been on ES for a few years now and I have been a contributor to many of the discussions about this very special breed we all love.  Some of these have definitely got quite passionate when members feel strongly about certain issues.

I am concerned that this discussion is now becoming one where members complain; talk about and defame other members which I don’t believe is any more appropriate than other forms of bad behavior that some members criticise this site for.

I understand that some of the comments that are made by members during discussions and/or debates are taken personally, even though they may not be meant that way.  This is a problem with the written word without the face to face communication to assist us to understand the emphasis; facial expression and body language.

I would like to ask all members to try to walk in the shoes of others.  Whilst I don’t condone bad behavior and bullying of any kind, I certainly can appreciate that we only see one aspect of people’s lives here (most of the time).  We have no idea what other stressors people are going through and sometimes this does affect the way we can react to comments made and also how we respond to the contributions to these discussions.

The breed itself has been through a tough year and many of the breeders and owners have been through some extremely stressful, sad and frustrating times. 

I think we should honour this beautiful light hearted happy go lucky breed and perhaps reflect on how we can follow on from the example that our breed exhibits daily without exception. 

I know this is why I love this breed so much, they never bitch about me, they are never unhappy to see me and they accept me for who I am.  I am a mere human; I make errors in judgment and mistakes every day.  I may be a “nobody” in the context of the breed as a whole and that’s OK as I can influence my behavior and act accordingly and I know I am “everybody” to my beautiful redheads and do the best I can as a current custodian of the breed, and that is what is important. 

[Finding_Beau]

Hi Cheryl

I have to disagree with you. There is a great deal of difference between feeling passionate and behaving rudely. There is no excuse for rudeness.

You talk about the unknown stressors in members’ lives. My response is that I would like members to “walk in my moccasins for one moon, and not two moons” (Cheyenne proverb) and see how they cope. I do not allow the stressors of my life to make me behave rudely towards others because I believe very strongly in behaving politely towards other human beings.

Calling another human being a “no-body” is rude to say the very least. I did not warrant this rude behaviour and the member who said it is now being dishonest and claiming another member said it.

When I was personally targeted for no valid reason I was merely talking about the English Setter breed I love dearly to try to help me cope somehow with the tragic death of my English Setter, Hammer. I know Hammer is with me all the way in defending myself against these members. Hammer’s spirit will never leave me. When a human being personally attacks me in a sense they are also attacking my animal children and I can assure you if they go too far they are in for a battle to the end.

I will continue to stand my ground if any ES member writes words about me which are untrue.

[eva ciechonska]

Sarah, I agree with you and in the spirit of this please, please, please let us draw a line under this forum discussion because it is serving no purpose other than to fan the flames and further alienate members from each other. Pat and Susan have been able to bury the hatchet so at least some good has come of it. We have all been guilty of getting overheated at one time or other, we are all human and impulsive and get carried away. We must not let things fester. As Susan says......Life is too short.

[eva ciechonska]

Oh Sara........the simple answer is that you shouldn't concern yourself with either.